Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics in the Virginia Department of Education – Average Teacher Salaries Edition
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24 responses to “Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics in the Virginia Department of Education – Average Teacher Salaries Edition”
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Did they take x expenditure amounts for y positions and calculate the averages that way? And the bizarre numbers you highlighted are because a position sat empty for 6 months with zero expenditures for the position, but the position was still used in the average?
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That is exactly what I was thinking.
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I can come up with three or four scenarios for how they got it wrong. But it does not matter. It is wrong. By a lot.
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The position was used in the average for the second year because that is the “budgeted” amount, not the actual expenditure. The budgeted amount accounts for salary increases, replacing experienced, retired teachers with lower paid new teachers, increases for experience, and filling all positions.
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Good start on digging into the “average” pay numbers, Jim. Mr. Watson nearby raises an interesting issue — does the average for each school district incorporate unfilled positions which, by virtue of being unfilled, are paying zero dollars? That may explain the wide swings in some of the smaller school districts as the the number of unpaid positions fluctuates year to year. It also might explain why Virginia numbers are so low compared to other states.
Another question I have is what kind of positions are we talking about? Full time? Part time? Substitutes? Are we comparing apples with apples?
One final thought. This reflects a longer-term trend and can’t explain the crazy fluctuations for individual localities, but are schools seeing a turnover of retiring older teachers with seniority at the top of the pay scale, who are replaced by younger, junior employees who are paid less?
Perhaps VDOE’s methodology took all of these variables into account. But… perhaps not. Citizens need to dig deeper and make sure we’re getting honest information.
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It did not take any variables into account, or the averages would not have been so skewed. They took data that was wrong on its face and averaged it. As I wrote, I think they asked a question of the data that those data were never submitted to answer.
That does not forgive the inaccurate inputs on the front end, but suggests the authors of the report were more interested in getting out of town than providing a professional product.
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‘average’ teachers pay is a statistical/mathematical joke…too many variables. I’m a math BS/MBA…various posts have pointed out the numerous gaps in the numbers…not to mention the input data…(Prince Edward County’s input was ‘zero’…fyi I graduated from a Prince Edward County college). Hey…if the GA wants to grant a one time increase to teachers I won’t argue with it…just don’t base it on some stupid/flowed statistical model.
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Exactly.
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Just the kind of mathematics & statistical analysis to be accepted wholeheartedly and without question by the MSM. In decades past, the media would jump all over this mess and hammer those who created it.
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I guess none of the people who ran the stats went to TJ in Fairfax….
In my reporter days I tended to use in stories the starting salary and the top-of-the-scale for somebody with a master’s. In other words the range. That is what somebody considering the profession will likely look at. As noted before, I started watching this “teacher salaries above national average” kabuki dance when Chuck Robb ran for Governor.
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You’ve been around state government a long time.
You know that data are tortured for answers that they cannot usefully provide to make points they cannot supported. This is one of those examples.
But it is also a perfect example of data compiled for a “requirement” and then no one even glances at it, just the”averages”.
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oops.. I meant to say ‘I DON’T DISAGREE WITH THAT’…
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I disagree that this is a worthless report. There are some anomalies at the district level that can probably be explained. And, yes, there is probably some bad data. But, most of the wide swings took place in smaller school divisions where the retirement of a few senior teachers and replacing them with new teachers who are paid much less can make a big difference in the system average expenditure. Those disparities likely had little effect on the overall state data.
This data reflects the difficulties of using data from numerous jurisdictions that differ widely. A senior teacher retiring and being replaced by a new teacher or a teacher position going unfilled for six months can make a much bigger percentage difference in Wise County than it would in Fairfax County. In some jurisdictions, the differences may occur because a new school opened. There are a lot of variables at the local level that could explain fluctuations from year to year. For comparisons between jurisdictions, it would probably be best to use the one that Steve Haner suggested: starting teacher salary and highest salary for teacher with experience and advanced degree.
At the state level, the best number to use is the one in the next to last column, FY 2022 Budgeted Average Teacher Salary. That is what each division expected to pay in teacher salaries, assuming all positions were filled and using the salaries in each approved or anticipated contract.
Using those numbers, the “average” teacher in Virginia had a salary of
$62,101 in school year 2021-2022.By the way, “classroom teachers” includes librarians and
counselors.-
Dick, I agree with Steve.
Another point, there is no indication in the report that the numbers of personnel in any classification (teachers, principals, etc.) in each division is accounted for in the state average salary. Averaging Franklin City with Fairfax County without that factor yields useless information if you wish to know what the average teacher in Virginia is paid.
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You are right. Or one could take the data, delete the outliers, say the two top and two bottom divisions, or perhaps Northern Virginia altogether, and then recalculate the average of the rest of the state.
The data in the report can be used in many ways.
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Then, for smaller divisions wouldn’t it make sense to do some weighting, such as salaries per years of teaching experience? Wouldn’t that address the issues that Dick raises?
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Sounds like VDOE believes that the report is flawed:
“Yesterday I received, unsolicited, a personal note from the highest levels of VDOE. In it my correspondent recognized the problem presented in my columns and promised VDOE management is taking on the task of fixing it.”
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They do. Along with other flawed reports such as personnel vacancies that I have been pointing out. They are taking on the whole process of reporting and assessing. First step is admitting the problem, and both VDOE and RPS have done that.
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That is a nice feather in the cap Captain! Double check their fix to the problem. VDOE believes in test retakes.
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I trust the new management at VDOE until proven otherwise. They have years of mismanagement to clean up. I am not referencing policy here, which offers another set of problems. What we are discussing here is just the blocking and tackling of governance.
I am going to focus my attention on the Department of Health next. Similar issues of both policy and management.
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One suggestion, as Steve pointed out, ask each district for their pay scales for teachers, principals, AP’s, etc. Pick a common point or two on each scale, say a teacher with an certificate but no graduate degree with four years of service or whatever and compare them across the divisions. It will get much closer to the information sought than the current system.
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Your approach might be a better way of comparing salaries across districts. But, that is not what the General Assembly asked for. The language in the Appropriation Act specifically included average salaries for each division. DOE gave the GA what it asked for.
Keep in mind one of the primary purposes, if not the most important purpose, of this data: comparing Virginia teacher salaries to those in the rest of the country. Because the only measure common with all states is the average, that is what is used. Of course, that has many shortcomings, among them the differences in cost of living. Thc cost of living in New York or California is certainly higher than it is in most of Virginia.
By the way, the DOE report does have a chart that addresses one measure suggested by some commenters: starting salaries by school division.
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i tried your ‘pay scale’ approach. easy to find FCPS’s scales…but for teachers there are 6 scales based upon the length of the contract…from 194 to 260 days. each has the pay for service time and advance degrees, etc. I went to Prince Edward County schools and could not find their pay scales. It might be there somewhere but I couldn’t find it.
The deeper we dig the murkier it gets.-
I agree, but VDOE could create a standard format for pay scales, require it and replace the current salary reporting.
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