Now They Want to Ban Tear Gas

Tear gas deployed against Richmond protesters earlier this summer. Photo credit: Commonwealth Times

by James A. Bacon

A House of Delegates subcommittee has passed a bill, the Best Equipment for Law Enforcement Act, that would ban law enforcement use of tear gas, rubber bullets and beanbag rounds. In a party-line vote, Democrats supported the bill and Republicans opposed it, reports the Virginia Mercury.

“It’s currently legal for police in Virginia to use chemical weapons against civilians that we don’t even allow our troops to use in warzones,” said Del. Dan Helmer, D-Fairfax, who sponsored the legislation. Rubber bullets and beanbag rounds, he said, “are known to pose significant risk of death and permanent disability.”

The wording of the HB 5049 bans the “use of kinetic energy munitions,” which include rubber batons, bean bag rounds, foam baton rounds, and plastic, wax, wood or rubber-coated projectiles. In a clause banning the use of tear gas, phosphene and other gases, the bill deletes  a sentence exempting the use of tear gas by police officers. The bill also restricts the acquisition of surplus military equipment by law enforcement agencies.

Bacon’s bottom line: The principle argument against tear gas, rubber bullets and other nonlethal means of crowd control is that they can hurt people and cause injury.

Yeah, that’s right. Inflicting pain is the whole point. If a particular crowd control method doesn’t cause discomfort or pain, it won’t work!

Police need a spectrum of options for dealing with riots. We don’t want a binary choice of shooting the protesters or doing nothing. Police need alternatives that fit the circumstances. If the police are denied tear gas, rubber projectiles, beanbag rounds and everything else the bill proposes banning, what means does that leave them to disperse a violent crowd? Wade in with helmets, shields and swinging batons? Water cannons? Stun guns? Are those alternatives any less likely to cause injury? How long until those options are banned, too?

The proposed legislation may be inspired by the City of Richmond police deployment of tear gas to disperse a mob last June. Protesters said that the use of force was unnecessary and excessive. Fine. If police misuse tear gas or rubber bullets, discipline the officers or commanders in question. Oh, yeah, that’s what happened. Mayor Levar Stoney sacked the police chief after that incident. 

It’s one thing to sympathize with the protesters and their causes — take down the statues, reform law enforcement and the criminal justice system, and so on. I can understand that. People have a right to protest. But riots are not OK. Burning, looting and smashing windows are not OK. If people engage in that kind of behavior, I have zero sympathy. They’re breaking the law, and they’re taking their chances. If they suffer a serious injury, it’s on them, not the police.

House Democrats also want to declare non-injurious assaults on police officers to misdemeanors, not felonies. These bills send a signal: Many House Democrats aren’t just on the side of the protesters, they’re on the side of the rioters.

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54 responses to “Now They Want to Ban Tear Gas

  1. One must ask, are they trying to get people killed? How many have already died as a direct result of the rioting? I’ve lost count.

    Over the last few months we’ve discussed ad nauseum about changes to policing that may or may not save lives. I’m quite sure many, like this one, will cause more harm and more death.

    There are ways to reduce the likelihood of more violent confrontations ending in death. Some involve changes to police training and accountability. Those will take time to discuss and implement.

    But in the meantime, if all the groups, all the politicians and all the talking heads on TV would speak out loudly that individuals should follow the lawful commands of the police, wouldn’t that potentially save lives in the near term? Let the camera’s roll and sort it out afterward if you have been wronged. But follow the officer’s commands.

    If lawful commands are not followed, the next step is violence, in one form or another. This proposed legislation seems to be a matter of which violent options are available. It’s best to avoid violence altogether.

    • No, there is no right for the police to kill somebody merely for that person refusing to follow some command. Three months to the day after the George Floyd incident, another person is almost killed — shot repeatedly in the back from close range — probably by some cop who was just outraged that guy was blowing him off. We cannot ignore that the problem is real, pervasive and these cops have to be incredibly dumb to still be behaving this way in light of everything going on. Has not every chief, every union boss, every mayor explained over and over to their police force that killing people is not a standard tactic?

      • steve;

        don’t jump too soon… we’re starting to learn more about this incident and the criminal’s background.

        • They hired a criminal on the police force??

          • TooManyTaxes

            Well we know for sure that Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, a proud product of Oakton HS in Fairfax County, kept them on the force. But American journalism has rallied around Frey with the protection of silence.

      • Saying that citizens should obey the law in NO WAY excuses excessive force by the police. Both can be true at once.

        But it is an undeniable fact that no matter how well the police handle an uncooperative/combatant subject, the prospect for injuries goes way up for both parties if violence is required. And the subject will face additional charges of resisting arrest. Why is it wrong to give people good advice?

        A loud warning of an unlawful assembly followed by citizens dispersing is far better than tear gas, rubber bullets, etc.

        Cooperation in individual encounters is also preferable, and it’s the law. It’s wrong to remind people that they too should obey the law? How so?

      • Was Jacob Blake weilding a knife? Might that be important to know for sure, before burning down a good part of the city and beating up an elderly man?

        “I heard them telling him, ‘Drop the knife’ when I was recording, and looking, I didn’t see a knife,” said Ray. “I was looking at his hands. When they said, ‘Drop the knife,’ I didn’t see one.”

        https://www.fox6now.com/news/i-didnt-see-a-knife-man-who-recorded-viral-video-of-shooting-of-jacob-blake-hopes-he-gets-justice

  2. Baconator with extra cheese

    This is too good.
    They’re the legislature, just pull out all the rioting and arson laws and just make it explicitly legal if your carrying a DNC card or are one of the peoples protected by hate crime laws.
    Simple and done.
    Or better yet, it you aren’t one of those people make them wear a Scarlett letter so you know the laws only apply to those with the Scarlett letter. Better yet make them wear an Orange “T”.

  3. Anyone been gassed? I have. No fun. Also object to using pain. The idea is to use sufficient force to make an arrest or prevent injury or death. RPD has used gas on peaceful, legal protestors. Ever see police or cops use machine guns and tank artillery on unarmed protestors. I have. Hard to forget.

    • Just wait. Given the way police advance on peaceful protestors, it’ll happen here soon.

    • Mr. Galuszka – It’s standard procedure to have all police recruits experience non-lethal force themselves before they are allowed to carry it for use on others.

      How exactly should police officers who are outnumbered, disperse an illegal assembly, or protect themselves when surrounded by an angry mob that is preventing them from driving away?

  4. And Jim. Rubber bullets can permanently put out an eye. What should the cops say. Stop or we’ll end your eye sight?

    • Mr. Galuszka – What’s your suggestion?

      “Stop or we’ll get in a wrestling match” (and a struggle for the officer’s weapon)

      There seems to be a great tolerance for non-compliance of lawful orders on the part of the citizenry, followed by very few options left for police.

  5. They are just reinforcing my current intention to never go into Richmond on any errand or for any purpose if there is a way to do it elsewhere. If the police are hamstrung, making me feel less safe, I’m just not going. You’ll have to go to Scott’s Addition and spend twice as much on beer to make up for me, Peter.

    • You’re safe from the cops, you’re white. Unless you confront them and get pushed down, or are thought to be a member of the press, the cops will leave you alone.

      Nothing to fear from protestors. There’s enough old white guys in their ranks to give you cover, too.

      They’re looters, not muggers.

      Now, Alt Right militia? Maybe you could carry your lawn torch?

    • Are you implying that the middle and upper class will leave the city centers if those cities are marked by looting, rioting, lawlessness and the high crime rate that comes from ineffective policing? Do you contend that the result will be decaying cities with endless social costs and an inadequate tax base to meet those social costs? Will some wag start calling DC Dodge City?

      Oh wait. That was the 1970s! Delegate Helmer was born in 1981 so maybe he doesn’t recall those days. But now plenty of good jobs can be done online. And … in Virginia (and only Virginia) cities aren’t in counties. No sharing the pain.
      Yeah, this is going to go very well for Virginia cities.

      Next up – the quality of police recruits falls through the floor and the corruption and graft comes roaring back. You make $35,000 per year and as much as you can steal. Think the New Orleans PD in the 1990s.

      Steve, you whimsically asked about where to invest your IRA recently. I’ve been thinking about that. First, short commercial real estate because leftist ideas like defunding and disarming the police will chase the tenants out of the cities and nearby suburbs. Second, consider real estate in “super ex-urban” small towns like Front Royal or Winchester. Close enough to major transportation hubs to fly away on business or vacation but far enough from the smoldering leftist cities and near suburbs to not be able to smell the smoke as those cities burn. Or, better yet – real estate in Idaho or Utah. Boise has been “on fire” since 2010 and Salt Lake City is “next up”. After all, the liberals who ruined New York, Seattle, Portland and San Francisco will need to flee somewhere once their gross mismanagement has its inevitable effect.

  6. The City of Richmond’s 20 year renaissance (2000 – 2020) is over. It’s back to the failures and negative population growth of the century before the “renaissance” began. More fabulosity from your Democratic Party.

    • New York City, Philly, DC, and Richmond, all under endless control of the Democrats, will all be our next lost cities of Alantis. Like the one Plato told us about around 360 B.C. How founders of Atlantis, he said, were half god and half human. They created a utopian civilization and became a great naval power sunk under the endless waves of pure imagination of progressive herds.

  7. James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Harkind Dynamics was a shotgun stun gun. Shoots out a projectile that has radar and when it closes on target the projectile deploys a parachute, drops its sheathing, and emits 3 stun darts. I think the pentagon is buying these now. Still might be to much force.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2020/07/14/pentagons-new-non-lethal-specter-is-a-game-changer-for–crowd-control/#320bb4c75316

  8. Ripper. I lived in the Fan for a couple years in the early 1080s. Had a great time. I came back here some years ago and wanted some space after living in totally urban conditions such as DC, Chicago, Moscow (twice) and then in NYC. There was a hiatus in the Cleveland suburbs. Both my children live in thus area and do not want to leave. One is very active in the expanding Richmond arts scene but is dealing with the pandemic. So, I wouldn’t put Richmond down too much. It has seen serious improvement in recent years but like DC it had been pricing people out of housing. Schools still suck. The good news about Richmond is that a lot if this has been a bottoms up movement not urban planning by bureaucrats and new urbanism jerks. As for me, I still like the quiet and pine trees. If I want to get pissed off I can always read Bacons Rebellion.

  9. Marvin Gilliam suggests that the Israelis might have developed a good non-lethal crowd control method — skunking.

    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/app/uploads/2020/08/skunking.mp4

  10. Well we know for sure that Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, a proud product of Oakton HS in Fairfax County, kept them on the force. But American journalism has rallied around Frey with the protection of silence.

  11. You clowns do not get it

    • “Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.”

      There is no problem greater firepower won’t solve. IMMEDIATELY

      if people were spray painting vulgar graffiti on your garage door, breaking your living room windows, throwing rocks and body fluids at you, setting fire to your mini van, shooting at you, and breaking in the front door i doubt very seriously you’d be sitting in the den watching TV, or inviting them in for tea……

      As we learned from the Ohio National Guard — kill a few and they all go home! END of the ‘mostly peaceful demonstration’

      • Might’ve been acceptable IF the ONG had shot the protestors. The four dead were changing classes and were not involved in the protests.

        Plus, for 30 years, the defense of force was it was individual guard members, feeling threatened, used force on their own. In the late 90s, a tape of the incident was uncovered in the FBI files on which is clearly heard the commands to “aim” and “fire”.

        Lastly, the protestors were gathered in an empty field, peacefully exercising their right to gather, UNTIL THE ONG ARRIVED. That’s evident in any video.

    • Enlighten us, oh wise one

      • Yes. I’ve asked Mr. Galuszka multiple questions, but to no avail. He doesn’t approve of tear gas, rubber bullets, etc. In his view, pretty much anything the police might do to stop rioting is wrong.

        It’s my understanding that firefighters aren’t allowed to enter an area until it has been secured by police. So how do police and firefighters keep the city from burning down during the riots?

        Mr. Galuszka wrote “I still like the quiet and pine trees.”

        That’s great for you Mr. Galuszka, but what about the people who live where the rioting is?

        Officials responded to 37 fires in Kenosha on 2nd night of protests, 1 ‘nearly leveled several city blocks’

        https://www.fox6now.com/news/officials-responded-to-37-fires-in-kenosha-on-2nd-night-of-protests-1-nearly-leveled-several-city-blocks

        • I suspect you have just obliterated Mr. Galuszka and the General Assembly’s case for outlawing tear gas that save’s lives and property, as illustrated with the 37 fires in Kenosha on 2nd night of protests.

  12. A dated Fox News clip doesn’t demolish anything. What is your solution? Shoot them? And BTW, any comment on the murder arrest of Kyle Rittenhouse, a white 17 year old and cop wannabe? You should try to keep up with the news. And, please knock off personal comments. It’s none of your Goddamned business where I chose to live.

    • “A dated Fox News clip doesn’t demolish anything. What is your solution? Shoot them? And BTW, any comment on the murder arrest of Kyle Rittenhouse, a white 17 year old and cop wannabe? You should try to keep up with the news. And, please knock off personal comments. It’s none of your Goddamned business where I chose to live.”

      Umm it wasn’t Fox News, it was the Local Fox Station in Milwaukee. As a “journalist” shouldn’t you be endowed with enough intelligence to discern that fact? Furthermore, Rittenhouse wasn’t a Police wanna be, he was vigilantly (aka Batman want to be). He would’ve been “charged” with murder not a “murder arrest”, again something a “journalist” would know.

      He like all other parties are innocent until proven guilty, so let his trial commence.

      Furthermore, what does Rittenhouse have to do with your inability to answer any questions proposed earlier to you? Asking you questions regarding your opinion isn’t “personal comments”, it’s asking a question in regards to your inane and uneducated opinion.

      Furthermore, you whined about CS gas. Well every member of the United States Army is subjected to it and Active Duty components are subjected to it yearly. Snot and burning skin is a heck of a lot less painful than a gunshot wound.

      “It’s none of your Goddamned business where I chose to live.”

      Spoken like a flaming hypocrite that you truly are.

    • Mr. Galuszka

      I think people should live wherever they choose to live and have made no attempt to pry into your personal life. You shared that information within this very discussion. Apparently you thought it was relevant.

      Dated? I just returned to that link today, which is one day later than when I posted the link. The story was published two days ago and updated one day ago. Has new information come to light showing that the 37 fires in Kenosha never happened? If so, please provide a reference.

      And I’m happy to provide my thoughts on Kyle Rittenhouse. His efforts to patrol the streets in Kenosha with a firearm were wrong, and resulted in the loss of 2 lives and another injury. I don’t know all the details, other than what I saw in the video, but it looks like he will be held accountable.

      What Kyle Rittenhouse attempted to do is similar to what I read about someone doing in Richmond near the statue of General Lee if memory serves me correctly. Fortunately, that incident didn’t result is anyone getting shot, but it could have.

      “What is your solution?” It is the duty of government to protect innocent lives and property. Orderly protest should be allowed, but violence and rioting should be stopped. If necessary, the National Guard should be deployed. What we are seeing in many parts of the country is domestic terrorism. That should not be allowed to continue. And yes, I would feel the same way about domestic terrorism from other parts of the political spectrum. Law enforcement should be blind to ideology.

      “Goddamned” ?

  13. There’s an interesting dual problem to non-lethal force too, body armor. The use of body armor can result in a false sense of invulnerability causing wearers to take chances they normally wouldn’t.

    http://search.proquest.com/openview/af123900e6bbe56e973924402e315543/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y

  14. What is a “vigilantly?”

    • So instead of addressing the comment you choose to address a typo. That’s pathetic, I’ve left plenty of your “typo’s” go as I understood your premise.

  15. Note to Nathan, Reed Fawell and MAdams,
    Here is my response to your derogatory and unnecessary attacks on my character and integrity. I am disappointed in your tone and what it does to this blog, but that’s what the era of Trump has brought us and I certainly hope he’ll be gone in a few months.
    In response to what kind of force police should be allowed to use, I have questions especially about tear gas (and its family of irritants) and rubber bullets. You are not in court cross examining me and my wiser course would be to ignore all of you, but I am attaching a couple of pieces that delve into the very real concerns of health professionals about the use of tear gas like weapons. You can read them yourself. I have been tear- gassed several times attending a concert, demonstration or as a foreign correspondent. I doubt I was the target; just happened to be downwind of the gas. The agent has been used for about a hundred years to suppress striking workers, keep colonials in place and break down demonstrations. Not only are such agents seriously damaging to people’s pulmonary systems, they can hurt people by making them stampede to get away. Curiously, international covenants severely limit their use in war. Police still use them against their own citizens. I think they should be limited in use or banned and cops must be trained in how to use them. Here are the links:

    https//www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127513/

    https://www.propublica.org/article/tear-gas-is-way-more-dangerous-than-police-let-on-especially-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic

    Rubber bullets are also dangerous because they can maim or possibly kill. Here’s a link for that.

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/11/journalist-blinded-during-protest-sues-minneapolis-police-state-patrol/

    Police and law enforcement must do all they can to defuse dangerous situations. All demonstrators must not be allowed to bring in potential weapons, especially firearms. No “militias.” I keep saying this on this blog, but I have covered dangerous situations all my working life (although not on a daily basis). At a Klan rally in West Virginia, police made everyone go through metal detectors and refused to let anyone bring anything inside other than a set of car keys. Metals fences separated opposing sides. I saw the same thing in Cleveland at another Klan rally. I believe it was former New York City Mayor Rudy Guliani who pioneered this approach. It works. Too bad it wasn’t used in Charlottesville.
    Lastly, on this topic, here’s a video on what can happened when cops can’t control things and everything gets out of hand with firearms. I covered this in Moscow Oct. 3 and 4, 1993, so I am not going to take any crap for you three about this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PJuIVIZ72k

    As far as my personal life, I have worked and lived in urban parts of Norfolk, Richmond, Washington, Chicago, Moscow and New York. Twenty years ago, I realized that I was getting tired of moving every two or three years. I had two young children. My parents lived in North Carolina about three hours by car from Richmond. I wanted to live on the southside of the James to save valuable time on my trips to see my parents. My then wife had won a teaching job in Chesterfield County. I wanted a semi -rural environment and found just that here. My children spent their early years in places like Moscow and New York. The former, as you can note in the YouTube link, could be extremely dangerous. My girls went through that at ages two and four. I was on the streets while their mother was trying to keep the kids away from windows. Much of the fighting, including tanks and APCs, was just on the street just below our apartment. Besides that, my girls lived through mob-style attacks that included bombings and ambushes. Across the street from us, a mafia-type was taking his daughter to a kindergarten with his body guards. Attackers waited and opened up, killing both father and daughter.
    As far as why I don’t go into Richmond that much, the fact is I am getting older and don’t like to drive the winding country roads with no shoulder at night where I live.
    I really don’t see why I am a “flaming hypocrite,” but I do resent the personalized, ad hominem attack. There was supposed to be a move on this blog to restrict the insults who have handed me, but I guess that only applies to people who are not conservatives. If anything is “flaming hypocrisy” that is it.

    Best regards,
    Peter

    • Peter (henceforth known as Petey, because you act like a 3 year old child). The following statement, I just laugh at how completely and utterly tone deaf you are.

      “Here is my response to your derogatory and unnecessary attacks on my character and integrity. I am disappointed in your tone and what it does to this blog, but that’s what the era of Trump has brought us and I certainly hope he’ll be gone in a few months.”

      Trump has nothing to do with the fact that you can’t defend your argument or make a coherent one without disparaging anyone who dares disagree with you. I’m all for Trump going away, however I’m smart enough to know that Biden won’t provide the utopia you so desire (something you clearly have an issue understanding).

      News Flash Petey, you’re not an investigative reporter. Tear Gas (actually CS gas) isn’t related to any other form of irritant used to disperse crowds. CS gas =/= mace (OC), one uses capzasin (peppers) the other a cyanocarbon (hence why it smells like fireworks being lit off).

      The notion that because you’re not in court and therefore are not required to defend your public opinion, is of course par for the course.

      News Flash #2 Petey, I’ve been CS gassed on numerous occasions. It’s non-lethal and supplanted it’s predecessor which was by those standards was not (CN). CS gas was also developed in the 50’s, not before so all of your supposed knowledge of the subject is now devoid of fact (as are you).

      “Not only are such agents seriously damaging to people’s pulmonary systems, they can hurt people by making them stampede to get away. Curiously, international covenants severely limit their use in war. Police still use them against their own citizens. I think they should be limited in use or banned and cops must be trained in how to use them. Here are the links:”

      CS gas rarely does damage anyone pulmonary systems, that would’ve been CN. It’s been prohibited in war since 1993 as the fear it would trigger a retaliation using a more toxic chemical weapon or nerve agent.

      Police are trained on it’s use and are gas yearly to be certified to use it you blabbering moron.

      Your NCBI link doesn’t work and the Propublica article worthless as it cites unknown “experts” and complains it wasn’t the right tactic following a pandemic. There have been zero long term studies regarding it and the DOD routine exposes their members to it.

      “https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/11/journalist-blinded-during-protest-sues-minneapolis-police-state-patrol/”

      While it’s unfortunate that Ms. Tirado was shot with a “foam bullet” hey you don’t even read the articles passed the headlines. Don’t step in between a Police line and protestors. That middle ground isn’t a place where you want to be.

      These aren’t planned or permitted protests Petey, how are you going to setup a metal detector. The moment you confront someone who wishes to incite a riot they will and always do react violently. Oh that’s right you know things and have been places. News Flash Petey there were 187 dead and 437 wounded at the end of your Moscow trip.

      Sounds like a life of privilege Petey, it doesn’t give you anymore credentials than anyone else.

      You’re a flaming hypocrite because you lash out when others dare to question you and invoke ad hom attacks, while you and your lackeys are the first to go down that road.

      “I really don’t see why I am a “flaming hypocrite,” but I do resent the personalized, ad hominem attack. There was supposed to be a move on this blog to restrict the insults who have handed me, but I guess that only applies to people who are not conservatives. If anything is “flaming hypocrisy” that is it.”

      Poor Petey needs a safe space to insult and demean anyone he pleases but when he’s called on the carpet he waffles like a wilted flower.

      This skred has further removed any semblance of respect I had for any of your work. The only way this blog will move forward, is if you and your merry band of trolls would learn to engage civilly with other posters and actually wished to engage in meaningful discussion.

      PS. Learn what an Ad Hom attack is, you haven’t been subject to one or by the other posters you listed (again, I laugh and you claiming any form of journalistic creds).

      • MAdams, Your take-down of Peter would be much stronger if you refrained from the ad hominems. There is no excuse for calling anyone who participates in this blog a “blabbering moron.” I value your participation in the blog. You add a lot of substance to the dialogue. But you’ve got to dial back the personal hostility. That’s just not acceptable.

        • I’ve not once engaged in Ad Hom attacks against Peter or anyone else. That term isn’t something that is applied thinly towards any criticism with stern words.

          It requires the attacking of the individual not the idea. Much like the following statement from Peter in this very thread.

          “Peter Galuszka | August 26, 2020 at 4:57 pm | Log in to Reply
          You clowns do not get it”

          Or perhaps you could review the post that followed that directly towards another poster.

          “Peter Galuszka | August 27, 2020 at 6:33 am | Reply
          A dated Fox News clip doesn’t demolish anything. What is your solution? Shoot them? And BTW, any comment on the murder arrest of Kyle Rittenhouse, a white 17 year old and cop wannabe? You should try to keep up with the news. And, please knock off personal comments. It’s none of your Goddamned business where I chose to live.”

          The manner in which Peter, Larry, Eric NN and upagainst (odd that Peter doesn’t complain about him using a nom de plume, of which mine is not) engage and berate those who don’t agree with them is pure and simple ad hom.

          If I wanted to “ad hom” Peter I’d simply say his opinion is invalid because he was born with a silver spoon and has yet to remove it. That would be me bypassing his arguments and personally attacking him. Instead I attempted to educate him on CS and OC agents, to which he thinks he has an understanding (he does not).

          Furthermore, the fact that cabal feels the need to cry and whine about being “attacked” when they can’t or will not defend their opinion is pure and utter nonsense. If you want to remove my ability to post, everything single one of theirs should be removed as well.

          I provide respect to those who provide it to me and none of those mentioned have offered and iota of it ever.

    • Other states manage to put shoulders on their country roads, why can’t Virginia???

  16. Thanks Jim. That’s a whole lot of help. Who is this guy anyway? Why do you let him hide behind a fake name? I’m with Haner on this.’

    • We’ve been down this road before Petey, my name is Matt Adams. Hence the M Adams moniker to which I use. Odd that you don’t seem to mind your pals using nom de plumes.

      Remember we had a conversation about Ida Tarbell, to which you said you were in a place that was physically impossible to be and how harsh that winter was.

  17. I can certainly understand banning CN but I think CS should be available for certain situations.

    I can even be talked into supporting a ban on rubber bullets, but I think bean bags should not be banned.

    It also looks like they are trying to ban rubber batons, which I think is a mistake.

    If the police are forbidden the use of all, or virtually all, non-lethal methods during encounters with unruly and violent criminals then the results are pretty easy to predict:

    1) More police officers injured and killed during encounters with suspects.
    2) More suspects injured and killed during encounters with police officers.
    3) Fewer people of the correct temperament to be police officers signing up to be police officers.
    4) More crime and more violence – especially in our cities.

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