Dear Groveton:

Unlike Jim B, I do not have a way to contact you other than via BRB.

I am with you 100% on the new “Party” and the guidelines make good sense on first reading.

In our household, my wife and partner manages the funds so I cannot commit a dollar amount at this time. Perhaps 50% of our annual book royalites?

On a second topic: Thank you for test driving some of the terms in GLOSSARY. You are getting a good grasp of what Funcamental Change will mean.

Do not be dissuaded by sillyness like 2% shared-vehicle system potential. In a Balanced Community with Villages served by a high capacity system it would be closer to 90%. Even in a lower intensity Balanced Community the number would exceed 50%.

There are two things driving down the conventional wisdom perception.

One a shared vehicle system served Village the intensity made possible by the system converts many vehicle trips to pedestrian trips. We have pointed this out in most of our long columns on shared vehicle systems.

Second the whole conception of what a household is and how it obtains Mobility and Access has not been updated in traffic generation models.

I will be posting one more note on the density string when we have time but wanted to get a word to you before heading for the Farmers Market and then the Core for a chained trip with 9 stops. One way we cut VMT.

Keep up the good work…


Share this article


(comments below)


(comments below)


14 responses to “NOTE FOR GROVETON”

  1. Anonymous Avatar

    Ah, the old travelling salesman problem. If you make nine stops there are about twenty thousand combinations that will hit each stop once. How will you select the order that gives the shortest distance?

  2. Anonymous Avatar

    This is more of a yank your chain comment but consider

    the inefficiency of stopping and starting your car nine times and probably traveling I am guessing? less than five miles between each stop

    This is done every Saturday by tons of suburbanites


    Stopping on the way home from work every single day of the week at a different store.

    I wonder which one is actually more efficient in the end?


  3. Groveton Avatar

    Anybody who would like to contact me regarding the establishment of a new political party in Virginia dedicated to political accountability should send me an e-mail at

    I stress that my committment to this idea is real. So, is my willingness to provide funding if matched by others.

    However, I have started working through the strategy of how to get this done and realize that it’s a long way from idea to political change.

    Some others from this site have sent me e-mails and offered their advice. I was happy to receive that advice and have exchanged e-mails with those people.

    Right now I am trying to articulate the philosophy of the Viginia Independent Party. I would appreciate all serious advice.

    As for the glossary – thanks. I have been poking at you about these terms for some time and you’ve taken the specific action of developing and publishing a glossary.

    Good for you.

  4. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse


    I will be in touch. VIP is a very good idea.


    Good questions!

    They do not apply to us since we both work at home, use one of our two latest technology but not hybrid Autonomobiles at most once or twice a week for anything and travel to the Core about twice a month.

    We all have heard of cold starts and hot soaks but what does that mean for a specific Autonomobile after a specific trip of X and a delay of Y?

    Our vehicle tells us how many miles we have driven, how many miles an hour we have averaged since the last reset (One is 23 mph over the last 3,000 miles the other 21 mph over the last 1,000 miles in spite of pushing up to abuser limits when there is an open road) as well as miles per gallon burned, the remaining range from gas on board, the current time and the outside tempreture.

    I would seem that with some additional software the vehicle could report on level of emissions from different scerenios.

    That would be a whole lot more important that the GPS system that only leads to Geographical Illiteracy.

    Of course if you could input the destinations and get an alternative emissions reading that would be useful, otherwise being able to read a map and having an accurate mental map is far more useful.


  5. Groveton Avatar

    Caveat –

    I am not asking anyone for any money at this time. I am trying to figure out how to make a difference in Virginia’s broken political system. I have an idea about truth in governement that I am calling the Virginia Independent Party. I am putting together some thoughts along with a few other people. However, I am not asking anybody for any money at this time.

    I am interested in people’s opinions as to what can be done to make Virginia politics and politicians accountable.

    I can get things “figured out” I will underwrite $25,000 of the costs of this effort. However, I am a long way from “figuring this out”.

  6. Anonymous Avatar

    I’m surprised how much difference stop and start makes. I get between 48 and 52 out of my hybrid, depending on how manic my driving is. It has a graphic display that shows milalge averages in 5 minute increments for the last thirty minutes. When driving in the mountains, you can easily see the effect of going uphill and down.

    For the first five minutes after a cold start, it gets only 25 mpg, the second five, it gets 35, and by the end of fifteen minutes it’s up to 50.

    If EMR’s vehicles are similar, then thy might be getting only 10 mpg for the first five minutes. Since they are larger engines, they might take longer to warm up, and the situation could be worse or taake longer.

    I would guess that with modern cars the level of emissions released is pretty constant with respect to gallons burned, the stoichiometry is pretty much the same, regardless of miles traveled. There is some excess release until the catalytic converter heats up, but that doesn’t take long.

    The car burns more gallons per mile in start up mode and that equates to more pollution per mile, not necesssarily more pollution per gallon.

    So, for a pretty good first order estimate, gallons burned relates directly to pollution created, and no technology is necessary.


    Groveton, I’m interested and would like to participate.


  7. Anonymous Avatar

    2 links

    1. Richmond Sunlight

    2. Sorensen institute

    the question are these really non-partisan or is either one bi-partisan or slanted towards one party or another?

    if you wanted to make some serious waves there are some really powerful people from both “traditional” parties involved with both of these projects and they have money to boot.


  8. Reid Greenmun Avatar
    Reid Greenmun

    I’d like a incar display that calculates and informs us how much tax dollars, tolls, and fees each trip is costing us. Now that would be most useful. Citizens do not really appreciate how badly they are being ripped off to subsidize developers and road builders.

    Of course the money spent on taxpayer subsidized mass transit that doesn’t provide useful service to those that pay for it is the biggest rip off of targeted tax payers of all.

  9. Groveton Avatar

    NMM –

    Thanks for the links. I am will go them. My biggest frustration is that it seems like candidtaes can run for election and get elected to state government without taking any particular stand on most of the issues facing Virginia. They pick a couple of local issues where the voters have a strong preference and ignore the issues where there is clear debate. Then they get elected, go to Richmond and wreak all kinds of havoc on the state in every area of the state’s business. Two (or four) years later they repeat the process.

    Look at the web sites of people running for office in Virginia this fall. Do they have positions on:

    1. The re-regulation of Dominion Power?
    2. The looming energy crisis in Virginia?
    3. The building of pork laden coal fired electrical generating plants?
    4. The enforcement of laws against illegal immigration at the state level?
    5. The abuser fee repeal?
    6. The transportation bill?
    7. The overall fairness of the state tax system?
    8. Trasnparancy in government?

    There are about 20 issues that every candidate for state office should address. These people will be voting on bill affecting these issues regardless of where their districts are located. Yet I only see the candidates addressing 2 – 5 of these issues in any public manner. I get the distinct impression that their strategy is to pick a few local issues where there is overwhelming consensus and pledge public support for those issues. Then, ignore all other issues. Then, say “vote for me because I am a Democrat or a Republican”.

    It comes down to who has more campaign signs in people’s front yards and highway medians.

    Now, the voters should be demanding more from the candidates but I see no “grass roots” effort to demand that candidtaes address all the critical issues in order to get votes. Therefore, I am considering just such a “grass roots” effort. My preliminary philosophy is to set a series of criteria required for a candidate to be deemed “worthy of consideration”. This would not be an endorsement of their position but rather a declaration that they have understandable positions on the major issues. So, in theory, a starkly communist candidate could be declared “worthy of consideration” if he/she publicly delcared their intent regarding the 20 or so issues determined to be those issues most critical to the Commonwealth. I wouldn’t vote for that candidate but I’d give him/her credit for being forthright.


    Your “in car display” is kind of what is used in Singapore. However, I believe that the display only shows how much you have been charged for various tolls. However, it could be modified to calculate total costs so long as the allocation algorithms for roadway miles could be decided.

    I would see your proposal as a potential approach for addressing my critical issue number 7 (above). If you were a political candidate and provided one more level of detail as to how you would calculate what the in car display actually displayed I’d give you credit for addressing issue number 7. If you did the same for the remaining 19 (or so) issues, I declare you “worthy for consideration”.

    Candidates for deleagate in Northern Virginia raise and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on their campaigns. They have plenty of money to pay people to help them develop informed opinions on issues and to build web sites, write speeches, etc. to publicize their stance. They simply refuse to do this in favor of financing a “highway median sign campaign” instead.

    This must end.

  10. Anonymous Avatar

    The highway median sign campaigns are exactly an indication of lack of imagination on the part of the candidates and their campaign staff.

    Unfortuately, we have become so balkanized with respect to ideologies, and there are so many single issue special interests, that it has become a valid campaign strategy to simply not tick anyone, or any group, off. Therefore it is campaign goodness, NOT to take a position unless forced to. As you say, they are relying on a couple of issues where strong preferences are voiced.


  11. Anonymous Avatar

    Another thought

    Is this something the committee of 100 could help with.

    I have been impressed with watching what the one in Prince William county has done.

    I am assuming there is one in Fairfax too but I haven’t seen as much about it


  12. E M Risse Avatar
    E M Risse

    Committees of 100 do good work.

    Fairfax County and Arlington County have them too. (I was on the program committee for years in in 80s in Fairfax) We helped start the PW committee.

    League of Women Voters (have they changed their name?) is good too. I was also no that in Fairfax.

    Even better are Study Circles. They were used to turn Sweden toward a sustainable course with “The Natural Step.”

    All these inform the strategy we suggest in PROPERTY DYNAMICS in the last book of TRILO-G.


  13. Groveton Avatar

    Thanks to all for the helpful comments and e-mails. I will stay in correspondence via e-mail with those of you who sent me e-mails.

    I am studying the web sites referenced in these posts as well as ideas like Study Circles.

    Again, thank you.

  14. Anonymous Avatar

    Japan’s Nissan Motor Co. announced Tuesday plans to install a fuel efficiency gauge in all future new models in its latest effort to tap growing interest in energy-saving motoring. Nissan said that based on its own tests it estimates the gauge could cut fuel consumption by an average 10 percent as drivers improve their “eco-driving habits” in response to the real-time gauge readings.

Leave a Reply