Is a Mighty Storm Coming?

By Peter Galuszka

November’s election is coming during one of the most dangerous and deeply divisive periods in American history. There are some clear warning signs that a contested election could lead to significant unrest and violence and perhaps worse.

Race-related demonstrations, the COVID-19 pandemic and the constantly polarizing rhetoric from Donald Trump have all contributed to a spike in domestic terrorism, white supremacy groups and direct threats against public officials.

This week, some 13 hard-right terrorists were charged in connection with the planned kidnapping of Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat. According to the accusations filed by the FBI and state law enforcement, the group intended to take the captured governor to another state, hold a “trial” and perhaps execute her.

(Update: recent news reports say that six were charged in connection with Gov. Whitmer’s planned kidnapping and seven people were charged for planning violent acts, perhaps instigating a civil war).

In Virginia, meanwhile, gun sales have hit new records in the run up to the Nov. 3 election. Data from the Virginia Firearms Transaction Center, which has tracked mandatory background checks on buyers since 1990, shows estimated firearm sales have spiked in 2020, a year rocked by the global pandemic and protests across the country, WRIC-TV reported.

It continued: “There have been 587,107 background checks in Virginia through September, surpassing the annual record in 2016 of 505,722. Gun sales have risen nationally, with statistics from the National Instant Criminal Background Check System showing an average of more than three million background checks from March through August.”

I am a regular commentator at WTJU, the University of Virginia’s radio station and we often do podcasts under the title “Bold Dominion.”

We just finished one about the chance for election-related violence or maybe even insurrections or a civil war. Joining me is Emily Gorcenski, a data scientist and social activist who has been tracking hate groups. We attempt to lay out what could happen in a contested election, notably since an increasingly unstable Trump has implied he might not leave office if he loses. You can watch the podcast here.

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55 responses to “Is a Mighty Storm Coming?

    • Ben – It’s very interesting to me that your post has been up for a day and a half, but no responses until mine right now. Confirmation that anything which doesn’t fit the approved narrative is to be ignored.

      No, these nut jobs in Michigan were not inspired by Donald Trump. One need only listen to their leader to see that. They don’t represent conservatives or libertarians.

      Having attacked the very mechanisms in place to ensure a free and fair election, the radical left is now promoting the narrative that any confusion or unrest after the election is somehow Trump’s fault.

      This country has been doing in person elections for hundreds of years (including during the 1918 flu pandemic) and overall, the system works. The left wants to take a wrecking ball to that, and send unrequested ballots everywhere, even to dead people.

      Over the years this country has established stringent requirements for the handling of ballots, the people allowed to work at polling places, what can be said and done in and around polling places, etc. All that goes out the window when unrequested ballots get mailed everywhere. Did you know that even people convicted of felons can work in the Post Office. It’s true.

      Yes, there have been problems with in person voting, but voting is administered locally and year after year the same Democratic strongholds have issues of their own making.

      The left opposes picture IDs to make sure people are who they say they are. Can’t have that. But a few years ago the NAACP had a conference to oppose voter IDs. But guess what. They required photo IDs from their own members in order for them to attend that conference.

      The left strongly opposes cleaning up voter roles to get dead people and those who have moved removed. The more opportunity for fraud the better in their view.

      The left also opposes the electoral college. Why? Because it’s the definitive vote that ultimately counts to settle the matter. Oh no, we can’t have that. Better to spend months and months looking for hanging chads, checking postmarks, examining the validity of signatures, etc.

      The left wants confusion and turmoil. They thrive on it. And if they are successful in creating it, somehow it will be Trump’s fault. That’s the narrative they’re pushing.

  1. There has been for some time now polarizing and hate filled rhetoric from both sides of the aisle Peter. Trump being elected is the product of the previous rhetoric.

    Bush 43 as smeared as “not my president”, illegitimately appointed by the SCOTUS. I’m sure that bumper sticker is still affixed to your vehicle. I mean the White House was also vandalized by the Clinton administration on the way out.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/12/us/white-house-vandalized-in-transition-gao-finds.html

    John McCain was smeared during his 2008 campaign, personally I voted for him even though I didn’t agree with his position on global intervention.
    https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/smear-or-be-smeared/

    Mitt Romney was smeared with his “47%” line and as a bully and for being a successful business man.

    Every single one of those individuals were decent human beings who would’ve governed moderately and one who did govern moderately and with the people in mind.

    Mudslinging has been part of politics for 2 centuries. It’s part and parcel to that life.

    Trump was elected because for the first time he pushed back and throw some of the most hate filled mud around (however when you’re candidate is loathed by a majority of the people it’s not hard).

    • I must agree. Any Republican gets the same smear treatment, no matter their actual policies or history. Any Democrat can behave or vote anyway they want, and the MSM looks the other way or makes excuses, and returns to trashing Trump. I will happily admit more than once watching Trump give it right back and quietly cheering. Not always quietly.

      • This is funny. Have you not heard of birtherism and Pizza-Gate or Vince Foster?

        All the GOP guys were “decent” candidates but the Dems had “issues”?

        • Larry, John McCain didn’t start or even entertain “birtherism”. That was a byproduct of Sec. Clinton’s campaign in 2008.

          However if you want to go down that road, that’s also another smear against McCain as he came to be in Panama.

          The RNC nor Bush, McCain or Romney peddled in any of the conspiracy theories you’re attempting to justify the smearing of good people.

          You operate in the a “ends justify the means” mentality, you could care less who you have to walk over to acquire the end you so desire. The product of that very behavior in Trump.

          You assisted in his ascension to the highest office of the land when you were all for mud slinging over actual policy.

          The contest has become who can throw the most mud and not have any stick to them.

        • And here I expected you to sarcastically criticize Mr. Galuszka and make fun of him for fear-mongering, inventing “boogeymen” and supporting conspiracy theories.

          Perhaps you aren’t as objective as you claim to be.

          • Pointing out smear jobs on decent people doesn’t have anything to do with my objectivity.

            I addressed Peter’s tripe earlier when I said that Trump was the product not a symptom.

      • Mr. Haner said:
        “I will happily admit more than once watching Trump give it right back and quietly cheering. Not always quietly.”

        I like President Trump’s fighting spirit but Kayleigh McEnany really gets it done. Watching her beat up on the corrupt press is like watching Mike Tyson in his prime. Lots of knockouts.

  2. Most of us can agree that the media functions as an arm of the DNC. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are an increasing number of loonies running around inspired by both extreme left-wing and right-wing ideologies, and they’re eager to plunge the country into anarchy if they can. Peter sees no enemies to the left and focuses only on the threat from the right. But conservatives and libertarians should be reality-based enough in their thinking to acknowledge that threats come from both sides. We can argue which side poses the greater threat (personally, I think it comes from the left), but let us be lucid in our thinking.

    • Of this I wholeheartedly agree, both sides are complicit in “turning the other cheek” so to speak. The reality is that D/R are just opposite sides of the same coin.

      Before all of those madness the policy didn’t differ but the means to achieve did. Now, we are at a point where competing ideologies won’t even allow us to elect adults. However, can you blame them. There isn’t a person in their right mind who would want to run for those offices, given the mud slung from every direction, it’s just not wroth the pain.

      Ruby Ridge, BDC and OKC were not the first instances of domestic terrorism, they were just the biggest.

    • When you say “media”, are you including FOX, WSJ, the Washington Examiner, Daily Caller, etc, etc…?

      You say left and right – again.

      Name the left-wing militia groups beyond Antifa (which has no physical presence, does not show up as a group, etc).

      How many right-wing militia groups are there in the country?

      let me help you:

      List of militia organizations in the United States

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_militia_organizations_in_the_United_States

      Which ones are “leftist” ?

      • Redneck Rebellion, the John Brown Gun Club, and the Rose City Antifa/CHOP affiliates come to mind. The CHOP security team were an interesting bunch; many were former USMC->radicalized lefties->YPG/PPK foreign volunteers.

        Edit: and how could I forget this gem!

      • Larry, I haven’t the time to look up crazy left wing groups. All that stands out to me is the fact that while Antifa has huge funding from a billionaire, the right wing groups are either living in their cars or still living with their mommas.

      • More importantly, is BR included?

    • May I humbly suggest that you need to throw out the left versus right? The two extremes are totalitarian rule or anarchy (perception of no rule). In the middle between the two extremes is the Republic. There are groups who want and are fighting for totalitarian rule (e.g., Marxists, Communists, etc.) and no rule (e.g., anarchists). There are those who are also fighting to keep the Republic. The old construct of left versus right should not be applied to the current situation. It is different than that.

    • If we are truly lucid in our thinking, we would also notice and point out that while conservatives are quick to condemn violence by groups considered to be “on the right,” liberals seldom unapologetically condemn leftist violence. For example, BLM and Antifa violence is not only not condemned, it’s actually promoted, funded and embraced by the left. Who do you think is providing the bail money for these violent radicals?

      In contrast, let’s look at those who planned kidnapping of Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. Are conservatives defending them? Bailing them out of jail?

      Partisan politics should stop when people turn to violence. What’s needed is immediate total condemnation. Conservatives and Libertarians by in large do this already. More voices from the left would be nice.

      • Trump Supporters Rush to Defend One of Their Own Who Killed Protesters in Kenosha
        Tucker Carlson said Kyle Rittenhouse, who killed two during a protest in Wisconsin, “had to maintain order.”

        • I don’t agree with Tucker on that point. If you excuse the typo above, I said “by and large.” That’s true.

          And if you recall, I did respond to Mr. Galuszka about Kyle Rittenhouse. He should not have gone there.

          Leftists have cause billions in damages and performed hundreds of thousands of individual acts of violence over the last few months and you point to one incident which appears to be self defense?

          • No condemnation from the right on the Michigan idiots…either.. and more than a few on the right who do support them…

            “leftists”, whatever you want to call them, have indeed caused a lot of damage but their numbers are small compared to the total number of protestors – just as we have seen in other periods of unrest and outright rights – like when Martin Luther King was killed. We did not paint all black people concerned about civil rights – the ones who marched – as reflective of the violence.

            You have to ask yourself what is the motivation of the vast majority of the BLM protestors – is it to riot? Nope.

            A small number that are not even BLM but rather anarchists seeking to use the BLM protests as cover for their activiites.

            But do people recognize this and see the difference or just try to label them all as “antifa”? It goes back to whether you believe that BLM has a rightgeous complaint or not. For those who disagree, they are more than happy to call them all as rioters.

            Now ask yourself, what is motivation of these militia groups?
            what are they advocating for? What are those advocating for by showing up heavily armed and marching together as a fuax military group? What is their goal?

            They’re ready to go after others. It’s not the same as “demonstrating” and “rioting”. They are wanting to target other people. That’s different. They are threatening “rebellion”, to go after public officials – like the Michigan group did. Go read their words on social media… their “cause” is not injustice… their cause is they disagree with government itself. Some of them are opening talking of civil war. That’s NOT what BLM is advocating for.

  3. Michigan militia… nice alliteration. Come a long way down since HH’s Michigan Navy.

    These are idiots. What part of “stand by” didn’t they understand?

  4. Agree that extremism involves many views but had some
    Personal experience with militias In the Midwest. Scary people.

    • Wasn’t it UofM’s computer center that was bombed by Weather Underground?

      What’s wrong with the people up there?

    • On balance, right-wing militia activity tends to crop up in economically hollowed-out rural and exurban regions governed by state administrations catering to a wholly different, urban, and progressive constituency which folks in the boonies see as alien and threatening (1). Left-wing street action, meanwhile, emerges when the public consciousness stumbles on the callous, violent, and downright predatory tactics of the modern state security apparatus, especially as it applies to racial minorities (2).

      Hella cool to see (2) revv’ed to redline by the media right before an election in which (1) will almost assuredly become the order of the day. That’s not a recipe for the Spartacist Revolt 2.0 or anything! Nothing to see here!

  5. Isn’t theWeathermen? I thought the Weather Underground was a show on cable tv’s The Weather Channel

    • Originally following the collapse of SDS ’69 they were known as the “Weathermen”. The final designation was the Weather Underground Org. (WUO).

      Weather Underground is actually a website, it’s superior to TWC.

  6. James Wyatt Whitehead V

    “This week, some 13 hard-right terrorists were charged in connection with the planned kidnapping of Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat.”

    This is your team Mr. Peter. All members of Antifa and it’s not an idea anymore.

    Yawn. I was expecting more from this post.

    I do like your podcasts. I will tune in a bit later today.

  7. James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Mr. Peter I listened into the podcast. You refuse to acknowledge the political violence of the left and the danger of Antifa/BLM. Their activities are well documented now and there is now way to deny it. I have a hard time taking this episode seriously.

  8. The problem with the anti-Trump rhetoric is the same now as it was in 2016: It ignores the alternative. Yes, Trump is a boor. Yes, Trump almost always seems angry. Yes, Trump doesn’t seem to keep the people working for him on the payroll very long. But then you have Biden – Harris. Biden is a thief who steals other people’s thoughts through plagiarism. He is a doddering old man who won’t take a cognitive test despite routinely appearing bewildered, confused and lost. If Trump’s taxes are crucial to evaluating his fitness to be president isn’t Biden’s mental acuity fair game too? He was a racist and may still be a racist. He is a serial liar who just keeps lying. On Sept 9, 2020 in Detroit Biden claimed $400,000 was more than he ever made in a year. That was a lie.

    The Tax Notes archive of presidential candidates’ tax returns shows the following adjusted gross incomes for Joe and Jill Biden for the tax years since 1998:

    1998: $215,432 2005: $321,379 2012: $385,072
    1999: $210,797 2006: $248,459 2013: $407,009
    2000: $219,953 2007: $319,853 2014: $388,844
    2001: $220,712 2008: $269,256 2015: $392,233
    2002: $227,811 2009: $333,182 2016: $396,456
    2003: $231,375 2010: $379,178 2017: $11,031,309
    2004: $234,271 2011: $379,035 2018: $4,580,437

    Biden’s 2019 tax returns have not been released yet.

    Harris is no better. She stands accused of telling 24 lies in her debate with Mike Pence.

    https://thehayride.com/2020/10/the-24-lies-kamala-harris-told-at-last-nights-debate/?fbclid=IwAR0DZaQGxuBYWogdx5xyWBtTCB-s161Lj7pDxQiI6EPd5cz5q9wu8rqfA68

    Where is the outrage from the left or the main stream media over Biden and Harris?

    2020, like 2016, is another miserable election with nothing but bad choices from the major parties.

  9. Mr. Whitehard,
    Thanks for listening to the Podcast and I agree I should have mentioned violent acts by the Left more. I certainly know of some. When I was an undergrad, my dorm was a short walk from a well-known foreign affairs graduate school. The Dean was a former senior State Department official with long experience in South Vietnam. The grad school was controversial since it training CIA, State Department and military officers. One morning, we heard loud sirens. Someone had firebombed the Dean’s office, destroying it. I also believe that arson was the reason that National Guard troops were called out at Kent State University in Ohio with tragic results.
    That said, I fear right wing fanatics more than the left. The biggest act of domestic terrorism in the U.S. other than 9/11 was the Oklahoma City bombing that killed 168. Right-leaning militias show up in battle gear with military-style rifles more often than lefties. I have seen some at demonstrations. When I worked in the Midwest, I came across right leaning militias and they were scary. Donald Trump has refused to denounce them and advised them to “stand down and stand by.” Since Trump won’t say that he’ll leave office if he loses, there’s lots of potential danger ahead.

  10. Mr. Whitehead, you are right. I should have mentioned
    Left wing violence. When I was an undergraduate someone firebombed the dean’s office of a foreign affairs graduate school. He was a senior state Department official and an expert On south Vietnam. Leftists denounced the school since it trained diplomats, the CIA and military.
    In my opinion, however, right wing militias are a far bigger threat a la thenOklahoma City bombing that killed 168. I have no respect for
    Nor do I trust, Donald Trump. Thanks for listening to the Podcast.

  11. Sorry for the two responses. The first seem to go through.

  12. Article today by Kathleen Belew, author of “Bring the War Home: The White Power Movement and Paramilitary America” and is assistant professor of history at the University of Chicago.

    Not a new problem, systemic domestic terrorism has arrived in force. I was on the corporate team supporting the creation and expansion of the Department of Homeland Security right after 9/11/2001. The trillions of dollars spent fighting the GWOT has not focused at all on this internal threat, by way of funding, educating the public and focus.

    POTUS – “Liberate Michigan.”
    Unindicted co-conspirator? OBL only inspired his terrorists, he did not fly the planes. What’s the difference here?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/08/white-supremacists-gretchen-whitmer/

  13. James Wyatt Whitehead V

    Well Mr. Peter. Like the old sailors used to say back in the days of tall ships and iron men. “HOLD FAST”. Maybe things will turnout better than expected. The extreme sides of the right and left want “fear”. Anarchy and chaos can survive on this. Lawrence, Kansas was 174 years ago. Kent State was 50 years ago. Oklahoma City happened before millennials were born. Lets hope our Constitution stands firm and the next term of office begins as it was prescribed 233 years ago.

  14. I don’t condone arson, assault or blocking emergency responders by anyone. What worries me is denying peaceful protestors the right to demonstrate. Reporting I have seen shows that most demonstrations have been peaceful. Also, I don’t see BLM people showing up tricked out like SEALS and armed to the teeth.

    • There’s a huge difference between “I don’t condone” and active condemnation.

      The left refused to condemn the rioters and violence for numerous reasons, including the fact that politicians didn’t want to alienate their base. The larger reason, however, was they thought the rioting would help to make Trump look bad. Once public opinion polls started showing that Americans solidly oppose violent protests, that changed to some degree.

      “What worries me is denying peaceful protestors the right to demonstrate.”

      There’s a way for us to all get along peacefully, and at its core its quite simple. Law and order is in everyone’s best interest. Additionally, we all must play be the same rules. It’s really that simple. And the cool thing is, in most cases we don’t even need to pass new laws. The legal framework is already there, we just need to embrace it.

      You mention “peaceful protestors” for example. Just because it’s peaceful, doesn’t mean it’s lawful. How many of these “peaceful protesters” got a permit? Absent a permit with an area blocked off for protest, it’s unlawful to inhibit either vehicle traffic or foot traffic. Look it up.

      How should protesters be treated? In the eyes of law enforcement, all should be treated the same, regardless of message or ideology. Here’s how that should work. Think of the group and message you most despise. Then decide how they should be treated. From now on insist that groups you support are treated exactly that way. But this only works if all in positions of leadership support it – that includes the news media.

      “Reporting I have seen shows that most demonstrations have been peaceful.”

      The key here is what you have seen. The national news media is not objective. You see only what they want you to see. If 10,000 people supporting the Tea Party get a permit to protest, the new media will focus on a half dozen doing something questionable. For the George Floyd protests, they stood in front of burning buildings proclaiming loudly how it was mostly peaceful.

      I suggest you broaden your input.

      “I don’t see BLM people showing up tricked out like SEALS and armed to the teeth.”

      Scroll down to the posts when the riots were most active and you will see plenty of BLM and Antifa protesters “tricked out” with body armor, semi-auto weapons, Molotov cocktails. etc.

      https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

    • James Wyatt Whitehead V

      Mr. Peter. Do you know how many arrests were made on August 28th, 1963, The March on Washington? 3. That is right 250,000 Americans protested peacefully. This shocked JFK, who had 4,000 soldiers on standby.

      Do you know how many people were arrested in Portland on September 28th?
      Here they are. Your team cannot behave themselves in a so called peaceful protest.
      Grace Dietzschold, 18, of Portland – Attempted Assaulting a Public Safety Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree, Resisting Arrest, Harassment

      Dwon Knighten, 46, of Portland – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Kalee Conklin, 28, of Portland – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Michael Smith, 42, of Beaverton, Oregon – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Aubrey Danner, 33, of Gladstone, Oregon – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Ruby Martin, 30, of Springfield, Oregon – Assaulting a Public Safety Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree, Resist Arrest, Riot, Interfering with a Peace Officer

      Jordan Brokaw, 23, of Portland – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Chris Baltazar, 27, of Fontana, California – Interfering with a Peace Officer

      Peter Werve, 44, of Portland – Interfering with a Peace Officer

      Kayla Degroot, 26, of Alberta, Canada – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Corina Rampola, 48, of Corvallis, Oregon – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree, Resisting Arrest

      Rachel Myles, 34, of Portland – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Alexander Trevigne, Jr, 28, of Portland – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Danny Leclaire, 27, of Seattle, Washington – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Brandon Sanchez, 23, of Portland – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Michael Colten, 28, of Minnesota – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree, Escape in the Third Degree

      John Doe 1, unknown age, unknown residence – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree, Resisting Arrest

      John Doe 2, unknown age, unknown residence – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree, Resisting Arrest

      Rachel McDonough, 27, of Portland – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree, Harassment

      Kristopher Davenport, 22, unknown residence – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree, Aggravated Harassment, Resisting Arrest

      Omar Shafiq, 23, of Portland – Interfering with a Peace Officer

      John Hacker, 36, of Portland – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Harassment

      Mitchell Lindsay, 28, of Portland – Assaulting a Public Safety Officer, Riot, Interfering with a Peace Officer

      Richard Singlestad, 26, unknown residence – Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree

      Nicholas Longoria, 23, of San Antonio, Texas – Robbery in the Third Degree, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree, Resisting Arrest

      Jackson Tudela, 24, unknown residence – Assaulting a Public Safety Officer, Interfering with a Peace Officer

      Ian Overcash, 18, of Portland – Assaulting a Public Safety Officer, Interfering with a Peace Officer, Disorderly Conduct in the Second Degree, Resisting Arrest, Criminal Trespass in the Second Degree

      • seems like if one wants an apples to apples comparison – you’d want to know how many protestors/demostrators versus how many arrests.

        The vast, vast majority of BLM protestors across dozens of cities were peaceful. In a few cities – it was not and there was violence.

        Here’s the deal.

        Some folks want to shut down ALL of the protests because they basically do not agree with why the demonstrations are occurring. They do not believe in BLM – they reject it.

        Others, from both left and right, are showing up to cause trouble and using the peaceful protestors as “cover”.

        It’s taken a while for the police to see this but now they do and they are intercepting the trouble makers when they show up while letting the peaceful folks protest then leave at curfew.

        Just as with the “door” protests at UVA – there are folks who want to shut that down… they’re opposed to the premise of the protests so they want to make it harder for the protests to be done.

    • Mr. Galuszka – Some time ago you asked for my thoughts about Kyle Rittenhouse. I replied to your request.

      Care to comment about Matthew Dolloff?

      https://mobile.twitter.com/rmconservative/status/1315467642556362752

      https://gazette.com/news/local/police-id-suspect-in-fatal-civic-center-protest-shooting/article_f65d2b88-0c22-11eb-942e-3b072eff662d.html

  15. Thank you Nathan and James Whitehead for your highly informed comments immediately above. At long last the truth is beginning to emerge.

    Let me also add the plague of the so called heckler’s veto and its ilk that is not a peaceful protest but instead is a form of violence intended to interfere of other peoples’ right to freedom of speech and assembly, and right to be free from physical intimation in the exercise of their rights, including the participation in the political process.

    For example, this I posted earlier on this blog:

    The discussion below shows how easy it is for a mob to threaten and intimidate law abiding citizens, depriving them of their rights of free speech, property, and safety. This event happened at UVA. It also shows how easy this bad behavior can decline into mass violence and how it can quickly spread like a bad habit to other venues and places with inadequate police protection. It also suggests how the University of Virginia has directly contributed to the birth and spread of this chronic violence in Virginia. The full BR post is linked in below the following commentary.

    Reed Fawell 3rd | February 27, 2018 at 11:38 am | Reply

    Wait a minute. These Jews who support Israel and abuse Palestinians, when they meet like this on the Grounds, they are promulgating “Offensive Memes”. Thus they deserve the White Supremacy treatment handed out last summer and spring.

    You see how one series of lies follows quite logically an earlier series of lies? Hate to say it, but it is hard to blame the students here. They are only acting out as they have been taught. But next time, throw them out of UVA along with a few faculty, like should have been done to a bunch of those students and faculty rioting last spring and summer. That will clear the air in a hurry.

    TooManyTaxes | February 27, 2018 at 11:53 am | Reply

    Whiny spoiled snots who cannot accept any views but their own.

    At the risk of showing my age, way back when I was in law school, we had classroom debates/discussions about all sorts of issues. Ditto for discussions in the hallways or over lunch. While some got strong and emotional, there was never branding of an opponent as evil or perverse. Some of us even felt we might learn something from a classmate.

    If UVA or any other publicly supported school cannot offer an environment where students can share ideas and debate issues, why are taxpayers funding them?

    Government regulation of speech, time-place-manner, needs to be content neutral.

    LarrytheG | February 27, 2018 at 2:39 pm | Reply

    The thing is – “protesters” can show up at any “open” campus event. There are dozens of these every week/month. What would we have the administration do? Send the police as soon as there is a “protest”? I dunno.. I’m asking … how would this be handled ?

    James A. Bacon | February 27, 2018 at 2:56 pm | Reply

    I’m not sure how UVa should have handled the disruption. The students were not part of any identifiable group, so there’s no group that could be sanctioned. Perhaps Groves could have been more emphatic in his denunciation of the protest.

    Reed Fawell 3rd | February 27, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Reply

    Why should the following actions not be grounds for a student’s immediate expulsion from UVA?

    “Rabbi Jake Rubin … said that he and student leaders invited the protesters to participate in the program and share their concerns through conversations, but the protesters declined the offer and continued to disrupt the panel.

    “While free speech and the ability to protest are important aspects of college life, we are disappointed that protesters refused to engage in conversation and instead continued to shout intimidating and hostile slurs directed at students, staff, and panelists,” Rubin’s statement read. “U.Va. is and has always been a place for the free exchange of ideas, learning from opposing views, and open dialogue.”

    Ben Borenstein, a second-year College student and active member of the Brody Center, attended the Building Bridges event. He said the protesters had a megaphone and brought literature to distribute about the history of Israeli-Palestinian relations. “I felt very threatened,” Borenstein said. “It was probably the most afraid that I’ve been in a situation at U.Va. because it was such a small classroom and it was so loud … it was very antagonistic and almost militant.”

    Mom | February 27, 2018 at 7:14 pm | Reply

    When we marched on the President’s house to protest Dean Canaparty’s decision to cancel Easters, they handled the “disruption” with police and fire hoses even though the only thing we threatened was the life expectancy of our beer supply.

    Reed Fawell 3rd | February 28, 2018 at 4:40 pm | Reply

    Wonderful comment. This says it all. Including that the UVA administrators love to hit easy targets for ideological advantage. Like how Sullivan Administration lauded one of UVA president who back in the 1940s was said to have broken the power of the fraternities at UVa.

    And how during the Jackie affair, UVA, eager for scapegoats, targeted fraternities for an alleged crime administrators almost surely knew was highly suspect at best, thus shifted blame away from the UVA’s decades long failure to stand against the hookup culture, the harm it did all students, especially young women students.

    djrippert | February 27, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Reply

    UVA = VDOT
    Clark Hall = A DMV location

    What should happen to 10 people who walk into a DMV office shouting and trying to intimidate the people trying to stay in compliance with Virginia’s laws?

    They should be arrested for disturbing the peace, handcuffed, taken to jail and charged. From there, they can post bail (or be released on their own recognizance), appear at trial and be found either guilty or innocent.

    Steve Haner | February 28, 2018 at 6:55 am | Reply

    I embrace Reed’s point above – those who were so happy to see the violence last summer, who refuse to see that both sides were responsible in July, have no right to complain that left-wing bullies are now doing the same thing to another group they despise. DJ is right – cuff them and haul them off, and if they are students, they become former students…..

    The email was 12 lashes with a wet noodle.

    LocalGovGuy | February 28, 2018 at 11:13 am | Reply

    It is great to see students exercising their First Amendment rights at a public open forum. If the Brody Center did not wish for these protests, they should not have invited the entire university to the event.

    I see the usual right wing snowflakes are out and whining.

    The Center could have easily closed the event. If they had done so, I’d agree with arresting the protesters. But if you open your event to the general public at a public university, you have to live with protests.

    This is not an ideological statement. I feel the same way if a left wing student group opens its event for the public and the College Republicans show up to jeer. The College Republicans should not be arrested.

    James A. Bacon | February 28, 2018 at 12:00 pm | Reply

    I would agree with you that it should be OK for protesters to attend, hand out flyers, wave placards or participate in other non-disruptive ways. But when they shut down someone else’s event, such an action is antithetical to the spirit of openness and exchange of ideas that universities supposedly stand for.

    Acbar | March 1, 2018 at 10:19 am | Reply

    It’s also antithetical to our basic nominal decision-making process, both legislative and judicial: hear both sides, debate a proposed response, then vote on it. These UVa students can’t get past Phase 1, hear both sides. And, it appears we can’t get any farther with gun control. We have an event coming up in Washington on March 24 that has all kinds of potential for getting out of hand. Yet it’s occurring because one side has stonewalled the other, won’t hear the other, won’t allow any response to be debated or come to a vote, through what appear to be the moral equivalent of bribes. All those students can do is come to DC to express their frustration, and they will. Which brings me back to the frustration expressed by some protesters outraged by the Israeli Wall and settlement policies: do they have any alternative either?

    Reed Fawell 3rd | March 1, 2018 at 10:37 am | Reply

    Your comment raises the rationale behind my profound disagreement with the comment of LocalGovGuy. The hecklers veto should be outlawed. People should have the right to express themselves in public without fatal interference from others. If bullies can drive them indoors into private places to peaceable express their beliefs then, in such a case, the bullies, fascists, and Stalinist control the schoolyard, and win by violence. Our society is far too tolerant of bullies. Bullies should be punished, not rewarded for bad behavior. Shouting someone down is not free speech, it is violent speech that destroys free speech.

    LocalGovGuy | March 1, 2018 at 5:56 pm | Reply

    It doesn’t surprise me that you want to criminalize speech.

    Reply Reed Fawell

    LocalGovGuy –

    You miss the point and beg the question. You also attack your own shadow projection.

    Speech has nothing to do with the illegal conduct at issue here. Quite the reverse. Speech, including free speech, is what I seek to protect, and what you seek to destroy. Can you not see that?

    Shouting other citizens down in public forums for their trying to engage in free speech and forcing them out of public squares into private safe spaces before they can freely express their opinions to their fellow citizens is not speech. It is thuggery. What fascists do on the road to their crimes.

    LocalGovGuy | March 2, 2018 at 8:50 am | Reply

    First of all, for an alleged “attorney”, can you please point to the “illegal” conduct? Please point to a specific state or federal statute that criminalizes the protesters’ actions and speech. If you can’t, well that says so much about your “acumen”….

    Second, you wrote, “The hecklers veto should be outlawed.” That is criminalizing speech.

    Reed Fawell 3rd | March 2, 2018 at 9:03 am |

    What happened to those Jews at UVA was on its face as reported, illegal behavior. What happened in C’Ville last summer was illegal behavior. This society needs to recognize thug behavior for what it is and deal with it under the law, no matter the ideology involved. People who don’t speak up on these issues, and stand of the sidelines clapping and/or covering for thugs, are complicit with the fascists.

    And please, don’t suggest I should write a legal brief for you on your misguided ideology.

    LocalGovGuy | March 2, 2018 at 9:54 am | Reply

    Mr. Fawell,

    You have stated in previous posts that you are an attorney. I’m simply asking you to please provide the specific state or federal statute that criminalizes what you term as “illegal behavior” at the Brody Center.

    Reed Fawell 3rd | March 2, 2018 at 10:57 am | Reply

    Educate yourself. Start by reading the history of the fascists in the 1930s, particularly after the fall of the Wiemar Republic, then focus down on the targeting of all political opponents, using the Jews as scapegoats.

    For more see:The discussion below shows how easy it is for a mob to threaten and intimidate law abiding citizens, depriving them of their rights of free speech, property, and safety. This event happened at UVA. It also shows how easy this bad behavior can decline into mass violence and how it can quickly spread like a bad habit to other venues and places with inadequate police protection. It also suggests how the University of Virginia has directly contributed to the birth and spread of this chronic violence in Virginia. The full BR post is linked in below the following commentary.

    Reed Fawell 3rd | February 27, 2018 at 11:38 am | Reply

    Wait a minute. These Jews who support Israel and abuse Palestinians, when they meet like this on the Grounds, they are promulgating “Offensive Memes”. Thus they deserve the White Supremacy treatment handed out last summer and spring.

    You see how one series of lies follows quite logically an earlier series of lies? Hate to say it, but it is hard to blame the students here. They are only acting out as they have been taught. But next time, throw them out of UVA along with a few faculty, like should have been done to a bunch of those students and faculty rioting last spring and summer. That will clear the air in a hurry.

    TooManyTaxes | February 27, 2018 at 11:53 am | Reply

    Whiny spoiled snots who cannot accept any views but their own.

    At the risk of showing my age, way back when I was in law school, we had classroom debates/discussions about all sorts of issues. Ditto for discussions in the hallways or over lunch. While some got strong and emotional, there was never branding of an opponent as evil or perverse. Some of us even felt we might learn something from a classmate.

    If UVA or any other publicly supported school cannot offer an environment where students can share ideas and debate issues, why are taxpayers funding them?

    Government regulation of speech, time-place-manner, needs to be content neutral.

    LarrytheG | February 27, 2018 at 2:39 pm | Reply

    The thing is – “protesters” can show up at any “open” campus event. There are dozens of these every week/month. What would we have the administration do? Send the police as soon as there is a “protest”? I dunno.. I’m asking … how would this be handled ?

    James A. Bacon | February 27, 2018 at 2:56 pm | Reply

    I’m not sure how UVa should have handled the disruption. The students were not part of any identifiable group, so there’s no group that could be sanctioned. Perhaps Groves could have been more emphatic in his denunciation of the protest.

    Reed Fawell 3rd | February 27, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Reply

    Why should the following actions not be grounds for a student’s immediate expulsion from UVA?

    “Rabbi Jake Rubin … said that he and student leaders invited the protesters to participate in the program and share their concerns through conversations, but the protesters declined the offer and continued to disrupt the panel.

    “While free speech and the ability to protest are important aspects of college life, we are disappointed that protesters refused to engage in conversation and instead continued to shout intimidating and hostile slurs directed at students, staff, and panelists,” Rubin’s statement read. “U.Va. is and has always been a place for the free exchange of ideas, learning from opposing views, and open dialogue.”

    Ben Borenstein, a second-year College student and active member of the Brody Center, attended the Building Bridges event. He said the protesters had a megaphone and brought literature to distribute about the history of Israeli-Palestinian relations. “I felt very threatened,” Borenstein said. “It was probably the most afraid that I’ve been in a situation at U.Va. because it was such a small classroom and it was so loud … it was very antagonistic and almost militant.”

    Mom | February 27, 2018 at 7:14 pm | Reply

    When we marched on the President’s house to protest Dean Canaparty’s decision to cancel Easters, they handled the “disruption” with police and fire hoses even though the only thing we threatened was the life expectancy of our beer supply.

    Reed Fawell 3rd | February 28, 2018 at 4:40 pm | Reply

    Wonderful comment. This says it all. Including that the UVA administrators love to hit easy targets for ideological advantage. Like how Sullivan Administration lauded one of UVA president who back in the 1940s was said to have broken the power of the fraternities at UVa.

    And how during the Jackie affair, UVA, eager for scapegoats, targeted fraternities for an alleged crime administrators almost surely knew was highly suspect at best, thus shifted blame away from the UVA’s decades long failure to stand against the hookup culture, the harm it did all students, especially young women students.

    djrippert | February 27, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Reply

    UVA = VDOT
    Clark Hall = A DMV location

    What should happen to 10 people who walk into a DMV office shouting and trying to intimidate the people trying to stay in compliance with Virginia’s laws?

    They should be arrested for disturbing the peace, handcuffed, taken to jail and charged. From there, they can post bail (or be released on their own recognizance), appear at trial and be found either guilty or innocent.

    Steve Haner | February 28, 2018 at 6:55 am | Reply

    I embrace Reed’s point above – those who were so happy to see the violence last summer, who refuse to see that both sides were responsible in July, have no right to complain that left-wing bullies are now doing the same thing to another group they despise. DJ is right – cuff them and haul them off, and if they are students, they become former students…..

    The email was 12 lashes with a wet noodle.

    LocalGovGuy | February 28, 2018 at 11:13 am | Reply

    It is great to see students exercising their First Amendment rights at a public open forum. If the Brody Center did not wish for these protests, they should not have invited the entire university to the event.

    I see the usual right wing snowflakes are out and whining.

    The Center could have easily closed the event. If they had done so, I’d agree with arresting the protesters. But if you open your event to the general public at a public university, you have to live with protests.

    This is not an ideological statement. I feel the same way if a left wing student group opens its event for the public and the College Republicans show up to jeer. The College Republicans should not be arrested.

    James A. Bacon | February 28, 2018 at 12:00 pm | Reply

    I would agree with you that it should be OK for protesters to attend, hand out flyers, wave placards or participate in other non-disruptive ways. But when they shut down someone else’s event, such an action is antithetical to the spirit of openness and exchange of ideas that universities supposedly stand for.

    Acbar | March 1, 2018 at 10:19 am | Reply

    It’s also antithetical to our basic nominal decision-making process, both legislative and judicial: hear both sides, debate a proposed response, then vote on it. These UVa students can’t get past Phase 1, hear both sides. And, it appears we can’t get any farther with gun control. We have an event coming up in Washington on March 24 that has all kinds of potential for getting out of hand. Yet it’s occurring because one side has stonewalled the other, won’t hear the other, won’t allow any response to be debated or come to a vote, through what appear to be the moral equivalent of bribes. All those students can do is come to DC to express their frustration, and they will. Which brings me back to the frustration expressed by some protesters outraged by the Israeli Wall and settlement policies: do they have any alternative either?

    Reed Fawell 3rd | March 1, 2018 at 10:37 am | Reply

    Your comment raises the rationale behind my profound disagreement with the comment of LocalGovGuy. The hecklers veto should be outlawed. People should have the right to express themselves in public without fatal interference from others. If bullies can drive them indoors into private places to peaceable express their beliefs then, in such a case, the bullies, fascists, and Stalinist control the schoolyard, and win by violence. Our society is far too tolerant of bullies. Bullies should be punished, not rewarded for bad behavior. Shouting someone down is not free speech, it is violent speech that destroys free speech.

    LocalGovGuy | March 1, 2018 at 5:56 pm | Reply

    It doesn’t surprise me that you want to criminalize speech.

    Reply Reed Fawell

    LocalGovGuy –

    You miss the point and beg the question. You also attack your own shadow projection.

    Speech has nothing to do with the illegal conduct at issue here. Quite the reverse. Speech, including free speech, is what I seek to protect, and what you seek to destroy. Can you not see that?

    Shouting other citizens down in public forums for their trying to engage in free speech and forcing them out of public squares into private safe spaces before they can freely express their opinions to their fellow citizens is not speech. It is thuggery. What fascists do on the road to their crimes.

    LocalGovGuy | March 2, 2018 at 8:50 am | Reply

    First of all, for an alleged “attorney”, can you please point to the “illegal” conduct? Please point to a specific state or federal statute that criminalizes the protesters’ actions and speech. If you can’t, well that says so much about your “acumen”….

    Second, you wrote, “The hecklers veto should be outlawed.” That is criminalizing speech.

    Reed Fawell 3rd | March 2, 2018 at 9:03 am |

    What happened to those Jews at UVA was on its face as reported, illegal behavior. What happened in C’Ville last summer was illegal behavior. This society needs to recognize thug behavior for what it is and deal with it under the law, no matter the ideology involved. People who don’t speak up on these issues, and stand of the sidelines clapping and/or covering for thugs, are complicit with the fascists.

    And please, don’t suggest I should write a legal brief for you on your misguided ideology.

    LocalGovGuy | March 2, 2018 at 9:54 am | Reply

    Mr. Fawell,

    You have stated in previous posts that you are an attorney. I’m simply asking you to please provide the specific state or federal statute that criminalizes what you term as “illegal behavior” at the Brody Center.

    Reed Fawell 3rd | March 2, 2018 at 10:57 am | Reply

    Educate yourself. Start by reading the history of the fascists in the 1930s, particularly after the fall of the Wiemar Republic, then focus down on the targeting of all political opponents, using the Jews as scapegoats.

    For more see:
    https://www.baconsrebellion.com/wp/moderation-protection-liberty-no-virtue/

  16. Gee. Recycling old stuff?

  17. Wow! Really? Blogging the blog? You do realize that this sort of thing could acieve critical mass (different from critical mass theory) and because of the loss of threading (different from string theory) set off a chain (again not a string) reaction, right?

  18. Absolutely. If you combine critical mass with critical race theory you go thermonuclear.

  19. Nathan, I don’t know enough about the Colorado case to comment. Not sure exactly what happened

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