EVs More Likely to Kill Pedestrians, Damage Roads and Bridges

by Hans Bader

“A recent study published by the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health found that drivers of electric vehicles (EVs) and hybrids are twice as likely to hit pedestrians compared to those driving traditional gas-powered cars, potentially leading to more fatal accidents. This conclusion came from a review of British road accidents. The study examined 32 billion miles of EV travel and 3 trillion miles of combustion-engine car trips,” reports Straight Arrow News:

The findings align with earlier studies conducted by U.S. federal agencies. In 2017, the Department of Transportation reported that EVs and hybrids pose a 20% greater risk to pedestrians. This risk increases to 50% during low-speed maneuvers such as turning, reversing and coming to a stop.

Researchers partly attributed these elevated dangers posed by EVs and hybrids to the relative quietness of these vehicles. Unlike traditional combustion-engine cars, battery-powered automobiles produce little to no noise, sometimes leaving pedestrians unaware of an approaching vehicle….The heavier weight of EVs makes the problem worse. Electric cars often weigh 30% more than their gas-powered counterparts. This is because of their large batteries, which can add upwards of 2,000 pounds in some models. This added weight increases the likelihood of fatal outcomes in pedestrian accidents.…Being hit by a car with an additional 1,000 pounds of weight increases the chance of a fatality by nearly 50%.

Electric vehicles will also place a strain on transportation infrastructure. They are much heavier than gasoline-powered vehicles. As Axlewise explains, “The average EV battery weighs about 1,000 pounds. Some batteries weigh more than 2,000 pounds. The heaviest EV battery is the Hummer EV battery, which weighs around 2,923 pounds.” A study found that electric vehicles place twice as much stress on roads as gas-powered vehicles. That means more cracks in the pavement. Last year, the Telegraph reported that the “sheer weight of electric vehicles could sink” some bridges in England.

An electric car requires “a ten-fold greater extraction and handling of materials from the earth, and far, far more acreage of land disturbed and, unfortunately, often polluted,” to manufacture the car and fuel it over a ten-year period, than a gasoline-powered car does; “the mines operating and planned can’t supply even a small fraction of the 400% to 7000% increase in demand for minerals that will be needed within a decade to meet” the electric-vehicle mandates imposed by the Biden administration, which will require half of all new cars to be electric by 2030. “What’s relevant is that the IEA [International Energy Agency] has told us we’ll need hundreds of new mega-mines, and that it takes 10 to 16 years to find, plan and open a new mine.”

This is not the only downside of electric vehicles. “Electric vehicles release more toxic particles into the atmosphere and are worse for the environment than their gas-powered counterparts,” according to a study described in the New York Post.

Electric vehicles require enormous damage to the environment just to produce their batteries — 250 tons of mined materials are required for a single battery, according to Real Clear Energy. Switching to electric cars would require a radical expansion of mining across the world, and the minerals for the car batteries will be refined mainly using the coal-powered electric grid of China, the world’s biggest emitter of greenhouse gases.

Yet a growing number of states are mandating electric vehicles. Nine states, including California, have now decided to ban gasoline-powered cars by 2035, requiring that all cars sold be electric instead. In 2021, Virginia’s Democrat-controlled legislature passed a law adopting California standards for Virginia vehicles, so Virginia also will ban gasoline-powered cars in 2035, unless that law is repealed, as Republicans have unsuccessfully sought to do (the Republican-controlled Virginia House of Delegates voted to repeal the ban on gas-powered cars in 2023, but the Democrat-controlled Virginia state Senate kept the ban in place, and Democrats regained control of the Virginia House of Delegates in the 2023 election).

Hans Bader is an attorney practicing in Washington, D.C.

Republished with permission from Liberty Unyielding, 


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90 responses to “EVs More Likely to Kill Pedestrians, Damage Roads and Bridges”

  1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
    Dick Hall-Sizemore

    I bet that if a study had been done in the early 1900’s, it woud have revealed that gasoline-powered cars resulted in more pedestrian deaths that horse-drawn vehicles. They probably caused more damage to the roads, as well. Obviously, those were not valid reasons to stop the production of gasoline-powered vechicles. As for EVs “sinking” some bridges in England, I wonder if those are modern bridges or bridges built in the 1800’s at standards far lower than what is required for bridges in the United States.

    1. CJBova Avatar

      As of a year ago, 6,346 of 14,068 bridges needed repairs in Virginia and 498 were classified as structurally deficient.

      https://artbabridgereport.org/state/profile/VA
      Adding the impact of poor road drainage to premature deterioration of roadways means the need for road funds may increase dramatically with more EV use.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        The charts in your article show a steady downward trend in bridges that require repair… care to speculate what the trend in EVs on the road is over the same period…?

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c6bdf083a70483ee6b60db22d61cbe7ff7c9bcf0c18f45e513d4b37518ac77d7.jpg

      2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        The charts in your article show a steady downward trend in bridges that require repair… care to speculate what the trend in EVs on the road is over the same period…?

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c6bdf083a70483ee6b60db22d61cbe7ff7c9bcf0c18f45e513d4b37518ac77d7.jpg

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          and here’s the thing…. most all bridges are rated for tractor trailers which weigh way more than EVs…. so how is this even remotely related to EVs?

          1. CJBova Avatar

            Where did you find that info? The vdot page wasn’t available just now to see how many are weight restricted. The point is heavier weights of evs add to wear and tear on roads and culverts and bridges.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Most all VDOT roads and bridges are rated for tractor trailers Carol. They weigh much more than EVs do.

            Ever seen a cement truck on a road or bridge?

            The argument is bogus to the bone:

            “No vehicle can travel on Virginia highways with a single axle weight in excess of 20,000 pounds, tandem axle weight in excess of 34,000 pounds, or a gross weight in excess of 80,000 pounds. Maximum gross weight is determined by the number of axles and the distance between the first and last axles.”

            https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/sites/default/files/forms/dmv109.pdf

            “As of March 2024, the GMC Hummer EV is the heaviest electric vehicle (EV) at just over 9,000 pounds. The Hummer EV’s weight is due in part to its 2,900-pound battery. In comparison, the gas-powered Ford F-150 weighs between 4,021 and 5,013 pounds, while the heaviest F-150 Lightning EV weighs 6,900 pounds.”

          3. WayneS Avatar

            And an electric tractor trailer weighs….?

          4. WayneS Avatar

            She did not say EVs are related to the bridges currently in need of repairs. She said the need for road funds may increase with more EV use. And that is certainly possible.

        2. CJBova Avatar

          The number of bridges in need of repair is still above 6200 and there’s no easy way to count culverts under roads that are deficient before they collapse. Make that no way for citizens to know Vdot May have the info but won’t share it When I tried to get info on a large box culvert inspection here I was told vdot does not release that info. Haven’t asked again recently.

        3. WayneS Avatar

          The charts in your article show a steady downward trend in bridges that require repair…

          Yes. Once a bridge is repaired it is no longer in need of repairs. Thanks, Captain Obvious.

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Given the damage supposedly inflicted by increasing EV usage on our roads, one would not expect such a trend (even accounting for repairs). Personal attacks are uncalled for, btw.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      EV batteries are steadily getting lighter at some point may actually weigh LESS than non-EVs , and they are getting “noise” added to warn pedestrians as well as new technology to detect the pedestrians and stop the vehicles. EV’s are in the infancy and will steadily improve as technology has in the past, Luddite climate deniers boogeyman politics not withstanding

      As pointed out by Rosie, the “anti” folks gave a whit about pedestrians and bridges and tire particles until now….

      compare weight of traditional car batteries with lithium:

      “AGM deep cycle batteries typically weigh between 50-80 lbs, Gel batteries weigh around 60-90 lbs, and Lithium batteries weigh approximately 30-60 lbs on average.

      “On average Lithium-Ion batteries weight 5 times less than standard lead acid battery”

      https://www.flashbattery.tech/en/why-switch-from-lead-acid-battery-to-lithium-battery/#:~:text=On%20average%20Lithium%2DIon%20batteries,than%20standard%20lead%20acid%20battery.

    3. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      EV batteries are steadily getting lighter at some point may actually weigh LESS than non-EVs , and they are getting “noise” added to warn pedestrians as well as new technology to detect the pedestrians and stop the vehicles. EV’s are in the infancy and will steadily improve as technology has in the past, Luddite climate deniers boogeyman politics not withstanding

      As pointed out by Rosie, the “anti” folks gave a whit about pedestrians and bridges and tire particles until now….

      compare weight of traditional car batteries with lithium:

      “AGM deep cycle batteries typically weigh between 50-80 lbs, Gel batteries weigh around 60-90 lbs, and Lithium batteries weigh approximately 30-60 lbs on average.

      “On average Lithium-Ion batteries weight 5 times less than standard lead acid battery”

      https://www.flashbattery.tech/en/why-switch-from-lead-acid-battery-to-lithium-battery/#:~:text=On%20average%20Lithium%2DIon%20batteries,than%20standard%20lead%20acid%20battery.

    4. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      EV batteries are steadily getting lighter at some point may actually weigh LESS than non-EVs , and they are getting “noise” added to warn pedestrians as well as new technology to detect the pedestrians and stop the vehicles. EV’s are in the infancy and will steadily improve as technology has in the past, Luddite climate deniers boogeyman politics not withstanding

      As pointed out by Rosie, the “anti” folks gave a whit about pedestrians and bridges and tire particles until now….

      compare weight of traditional car batteries with lithium:

      “AGM deep cycle batteries typically weigh between 50-80 lbs, Gel batteries weigh around 60-90 lbs, and Lithium batteries weigh approximately 30-60 lbs on average.

      “On average Lithium-Ion batteries weight 5 times less than standard lead acid battery”

      https://www.flashbattery.tech/en/why-switch-from-lead-acid-battery-to-lithium-battery/#:~:text=On%20average%20Lithium%2DIon%20batteries,than%20standard%20lead%20acid%20battery.

      1. CJBova Avatar

        Any available stats?

        1. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          quite a bit if you Google.

          EV’s are in their infancy… akin to where Model T’s were.

          Range alone is increasing every year and batteries are expected to lighter and lighter as they shift to different types.

          “Lithium-metal chemistry
          GM says this chemistry can lead to smaller, lighter batteries with greater energy density and range. However, lithium metal batteries have some safety concerns and limited rechargeability.

          Solid-state batteries
          These batteries use a solid electrolyte instead of liquid electrolytes, which can lead to higher energy density, lighter batteries, and longer driving ranges.

          Nanomaterials
          These materials can improve battery performance and efficiency while reducing their weight.

          Flexible circuits (FDCs)
          These circuits can enable thinner, lighter batteries that are more powerful and reliable.

          New materials and chemistry
          Stellantis’ technology chief, Ned Curic, says the company will need to consider new materials and chemistry to reduce battery weight by at least 50% by 2030”

  2. Rosie Avatar

    SUVs and similarly-sized vans are 45% more likely to have fatal collisions with pedestrians than something smaller like a sedan, and they weigh more on average than sedans. Weirdly, no calls for regulation or doing something about these behemoth vehicles.

    Almost as if the writers of these articles don’t actually care about pedestrians or whales or bridges and have ulterior motives to attacking alternatives to the combustion engine.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Yes. True on all points.

    2. DJRippert Avatar
      DJRippert

      Nobody is trying to mandate the use of SUVs by a date certain.

  3. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    Hybrids ( and I assume EV’s) in USA now have to make a constant/fake noise to alert pedestrians when running on battery.

    But yes the Democrat EV-mandate craze is looking a bit premature. Hybrids taking on greater popularity in recent years, and China seems poised to take over EV world via BYD (Warren Buffet stock) making cheap high quality EV’s.

    For many reasons, forcing EV’s on everyone is probably not good. But I think Dems are very excited to try to topple to the U.S. oil industry, so that is their real goal, in my mind.

    Complete disclosure-
    2020 RAV4 Hybrid owner
    2006 Prius Hybrid prior owner

  4. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
    energyNOW_Fan

    Hybrids ( and I assume EV’s) in USA now have to make a constant/fake noise to alert pedestrians when running on battery.

    But yes the Democrat EV-mandate craze is looking a bit premature. Hybrids taking on greater popularity in recent years, and China seems poised to take over EV world via BYD (Warren Buffet stock) making cheap high quality EV’s.

    For many reasons, forcing EV’s on everyone is probably not good. But I think Dems are very excited to try to topple to the U.S. oil industry, so that is their real goal, in my mind.

    Complete disclosure-
    2020 RAV4 Hybrid owner
    2006 Prius Hybrid prior owner

  5. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Passenger cars were involved in 62% of pedestrians and cyclists crashes where children were hit, but caused about 19% of fatalities in those cases. However, SUV drivers were involved in just 16.9% of crashes, yet caused 40% of pedestrian deaths involving children.

    Though pickup trucks were involved in hitting pedestrians in less than 6% of crashes, they were involved in 12.6% of pedestrian fatality crashes overall. SUVs were also overrepresented in striking and killing pedestrians compared to all crashes, involved in less than 15% of crashes studied by researchers, but involved in 25.4% of deadly crashes.

    https://www.codot.gov/safety/shift-into-safe-news/2022/august/study-suvs-light-trucks-pose-significant-risk-to-pedestrian-crashes-involving-children#

  6. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    EVs , being heavily subsidized, are ahead of their time. There would be fewer of them and fewer of the problems mentioned if technology and market forces were allowed to operate without the heavy hand of government.
    Until battery technology advances significantly, these consequences will continue and grow worse.

  7. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Passenger cars were involved in 62% of pedestrians and cyclists crashes where children were hit, but caused about 19% of fatalities in those cases. However, SUV drivers were involved in just 16.9% of crashes, yet caused 40% of pedestrian deaths involving children.

    Though pickup trucks were involved in hitting pedestrians in less than 6% of crashes, they were involved in 12.6% of pedestrian fatality crashes overall. SUVs were also overrepresented in striking and killing pedestrians compared to all crashes, involved in less than 15% of crashes studied by researchers, but involved in 25.4% of deadly crashes.

    https://www.codot.gov/safety/shift-into-safe-news/2022/august/study-suvs-light-trucks-pose-significant-risk-to-pedestrian-crashes-involving-children#

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      FWIW, there is a Financial Times report comparing four countries, the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand SUV, and Pickup size and weight increase over last 2.5 decades vs. pedestrian deaths. The four countries were selected since all four are buying bigger and heavier vehicles, but only the US has an increase in pedestrian deaths.

      This is easily explained. Only the US has “right(left) turn on red” as a default.

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        Yeah, bad driving is usually the problem. No traffic enforecement to protect crosswalks, etc. I’m alot more concerned about the autonomous driving programs actually making it worse. As to the nature of the vehicles, size and weight are the issue across the board. I really hate parking lots now with the monsters blocking my view.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Actually, I’m not. Those autonomous systems are “constantly looking”. Literally, when they come to a turn, they look left AND right at the same time continuously. The early Google autonomous cars were seeing a full 360 degrees at all times with a msst mount and a weird mirror.

          Saturday, I was in the worst parking lot in NN. I deliberately parked where there were no other cars waiting on the spouse to run in and pick up and order. An old guy driving an Escalade backed in next to me, but only halfway into his spot. Thank God for a backup display and motion detection sensors.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Some localities are considering outlawing right turn on red if there is a crosswalk.

        Truth is that pedestrian injuries and deaths are up dramatically (Virginia had 169 pedestrian fatalities from traffic accidents last year, a 35% increase over 2021, according to the GHSA report) and there IS technology available now that will stop a car if a pedestrian is detected in it’s path. (The NHTSA will also require that vehicle safety systems be able to detect pedestrians in daylight and at night.)

        more nasty govmint regulations!

      3. Marty Chapman Avatar
        Marty Chapman

        About a third of pedestrians killed by motor vehs in Va have measurable blood alcohol content. I have not seen stats for other controlled substances.

        1. Nancy Naive Avatar
          Nancy Naive

          Yeah, probably true. But still, the guy behind the wheel has responsibility to avoid slow moving objects. “I Brake For Squirrels”

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            you can run over people and later say it’s “ok” cuz they were drunk? hmm.. where have I heard that logic before?

          2. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Only 1/3 of the time. Probably less, given the drunk- drunk probability is not zero.

          3. Marty Chapman Avatar
            Marty Chapman

            Drunk pedestrians often make foolish choices. For example trying to cross 5 lanes of I-495 or standing in middle of Rt 1 while urinating.

          4. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            That last one’s not foolish, just necessary. That’ll get a million views. Dash cam, worth its weight in gold.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Well, they sure deserved to be killed for such stuff, right?

          6. Nancy Naive Avatar
            Nancy Naive

            Nah, just maimed.

          7. Marty Chapman Avatar
            Marty Chapman

            Back before dashcams. Finding all his parts after a he was hit, knocked into the opposite lanes, hit again and dragged was a chore!

  8. LarrytheG Avatar
    LarrytheG

    Here’s the thing that will win over people to EVs no matter their politics:

    ” What is the EV cost per gallon equivalent to?
    How much does EV charging cost? In most parts of the country, charging an EV is equivalent to a gasoline price of $1 to $2 per gallon. The national average is $1.41 per eGallon, which is less than half the current gasoline price of $3.09 (as of Jan. 5, 2024).”

    EV range is steadily improving and predicted to be 500 miles or more in a few years or less and will recharge in the time of an
    average gasoline fillup.

    As EVs get better and better, I predict we’ll hear less and less from the naysayers and some will say they were supporters all along!

    1. Yeah, Larry, as EVs get better, you will hear less from the naysayers… when the EVs get better!!. I look forward to that day. Until that day comes and we have EVs that do all the wonderful traits you think they will, I don’t appreciate the ruling class cramming the damn things down our throats.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        They’re ALREADY getting better – lighter, longer range, quicker recharge, cheaper! Ya’ll who spend
        all your time being naysayers miss the real world evolution of the EVs! Biden just took action to
        keep the Chinese EVs out of the USA. “Ruling class this and ruling class that”. If it wasn’t for the
        “ruling class”, we’d still be driving cars with leaded gasoline and uber-polluted cities. It’s NOT the “ruling class” that is producing the Chinese EVs, it’s the free market! Ya’ll get so distracted with your culture war stuff!

        1. Bedfordboy Avatar
          Bedfordboy

          “Free market” and Chinese EV’s is an oxymoron. In fact, free market and Chinese economy is an oxymoron. Chinese manufacturers don’t pay union wages and incur a fraction of the “green energy” tax faced by American manufacturers. Their industries are heavily subsidized to effectuate strategic state goals. And, Larry, 60% of the electricity in China used to manufacture and charge their EV’s comes from cheap coal, which the greenies decry as the worst greenhouse gas polluter. That’s why the Chinese EV’s are pressuring the US market. Biden’s tariffs are simply a tax designed to negate those economic advantages and to promote his own green goals.

          Drive all the EV’s you want but do it on your own dime. And brush up on comparative economics.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Yes, they are subsidized, they’re also selling them worldwide as they do with wind/solar.

            They not only build more coal plants. They build more nukes and are number 1 in wind/solar.

            We subsidize also. We bailed out the car manufacturers. We subsidize fossil fuels and nukes also,
            as well as farm crops that we sell back to China!

          2. Bedfordboy Avatar
            Bedfordboy

            Therefore………..?

            Here’s a test for your bona fides. Do you drive an EV and did you claim a credit for its purchase on your tax filings? Pay that credit back to the Treasury and your EV advocacy would carry more weight.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I don’t have one yet but the energy credits in the Federal code started back in 1978 and have continued since then for certain things like HVACs. I do volunteer taxes and I see people getting these energy credits all the time. There in the tax code and I don’t see anyone offering to not take advantage of the credits and tax breaks being offered because they disagree politically with the concept.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            I support the tax credits in concept. They are consistent with the idea of using the tax code
            to incentivize behaviors thought to be beneficial – like married filing joint and penalties for married filing separate!

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        here is your “ruling class jamming it down our throats” JAB:

        ” China is the world’s leading producer and exporter of electric vehicles (EVs), accounting for more than half of global EV sales in 2022. In 2023, China exported over 1.2 million EVs, which was an 80% increase from the previous year. China’s EV market growth is attributed to several factors, including: A large internal market, Favorable government policies, Experimentation in related industries, Encouraging operational solutions, and A focus on core technology.”

        “Chinese EVs already make up 60 percent of worldwide sales, according to International Energy Agency, a Paris-based energy consultant. Tesla and BYD have been battling it out for market share for the last couple of years.”

    2. Bedfordboy Avatar
      Bedfordboy

      There would be far fewer naysayers if those who choose to drive an EV bore the entire cost instead of being heavily subsidized by taxpayers. EV purchasers lay off up to $7500 of their new EV purchase price onto taxpayers via a tax credit. Manufacturers also are on the public dole. Ford, for example, is a big advocate for EVs. It lost $130,000 per EV sold in Q1 ’24 and their e Division revenue is down 84% from Q1 ’23. But the Transportation Department (also known as US taxpayers) gave Ford a $9 billion loan to build battery production facilities. I hope the taxpayers get more bang for their buck on those “loans” than they have from other government EV investments. For example, the 2021 Infrastructure Act allocated $7.5 billion to building EV charging stations across the US. To date, 7 — seven — have been built. The Inflation Reduction Act poured additional extensive taxpayer subsidies into the EV push, yet EV’s pile up on the import docks and dealers’ lots.

      The current EV economic structure would quickly collapse in a free market with no government subsidies. Naysayers have every right to complain that their tax dollars are keeping that structure on life support for the benefit of those who choose to drive one.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Naw… it’s not about that… we all know what it’s really about. More culture war related to
        Climate deniers… right?

        1. Bedfordboy Avatar
          Bedfordboy

          When the law is not on your side, argue the facts; when the facts are not on your side, argue the law; when neither is on your side, argue “culture war related to Climate deniers.”

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Are you also opposed to these:

            Energy Efficient Home Improvement Credit
            These expenses may qualify if they meet requirements detailed on energy.gov:

            Exterior doors, windows, skylights and insulation materials
            Central air conditioners, water heaters, furnaces, boilers and heat pumps
            Biomass stoves and boilers
            Home energy audits
            The amount of the credit you can take is a percentage of the total improvement expenses in the year of installation:

            2022: 30%, up to a lifetime maximum of $500
            2023 through 2032: 30%, up to a maximum of $1,200 (heat pumps, biomass stoves and boilers have a separate annual credit limit of $2,000), no lifetime limit
            Get details on the Energy Efficient Home Improvement Credit.

            Residential Clean Energy Credit
            These expenses may qualify if they meet requirements detailed on energy.gov:

            Solar, wind and geothermal power generation
            Solar water heaters
            Fuel cells
            Battery storage (beginning in 2023)
            The amount of the credit you can take is a percentage of the total improvement expenses in the year of installation:

            2022 to 2032: 30%, no annual maximum or lifetime limit
            2033: 26%, no annual maximum or lifetime limit
            2034: 22%, no annual maximum or lifetime limit

          2. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            BTW: ” The energy tax credit was first enacted in the Energy Tax Act of 1978 (P.L. 95-618), which created a temporary 10% tax credit for business energy property and equipment using energy resources other than oil or natural gas.

            The Energy Credit or Energy Investment Tax Credit (ITC)

            Seems like it’s been there awhile before the naysayers figured it out and got to naysaying.. no?

          3. Bedfordboy Avatar
            Bedfordboy

            Dunno. Tell me how much these credits cumulatively have cost the taxpayer and what they have quantitatively accomplished toward their goals (feeling good about yourself doesn’t count, nor does vote buying). In the meantime, and back on the article’s topic of EV’s, I await your input on the current economics of EV’s if you differ with mine.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            did you agree with the concept of the credits as put forth in law? Did “economics” have anything to do with any of the credits in 1978 onward?

          5. WayneS Avatar

            Smug self satisfaction and feelings of moral superiority have to be worth something, don’t they? 😎

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            did you agree with the concept of the credits as put forth in law? Did “economics” have anything to do with any of the credits in 1978 onward?

        2. WayneS Avatar

          Wrong.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Your view, not mine… for sure… the naysayers and Luddites have been with us since time began but the climate deniers are a new breed that oppose things like EVs…and such.. IMO.. you’re entitled to yours.

    3. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      Keep in mind elec costs going up and gaso cost is a ton of taxes. Keep in mind calcs of elec for EV use are often not real world. If you want real world EV elec use, we’d have to get access to Tesla’s secret data base. Until then we get wishful thinking from advocates. Gaso cars have no secrets due to public data bases such as Fuelly.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        you can make electricity cheaper than you can gasoline and not near as volatile, no?

        Don’t the folks that actually drive the EVs know the costs?

        What the US is worried about is China electric cars.. they are so afraid of them they have tried to essentially ban their import.

        That doesn’t sound like the “ruling class” trying to “ram them down our throat”

        EV’s are much simplier to produce fuel for – not anything near as complex as gasoline both in production and distribution.

        Even electricity produced by fossil fuels is simplier and less costly/polluting than fossil fuels from start to finish through the supply chain.

        VDOT is moving to a mileage based tax and away from a per gallon tax but most do not realize that only about 1/3 of state transpo revenues come from the gas tax to start with. They collect an equal amt from the general sales tax.

  9. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
    f/k/a_tmtfairfax

    I suspect that the problem with bridges relates to the taxpayer subsidy of overweight truck permits. Sometime ago, Delegate Mark Keam (D. Fairfax) worked with community groups and colleagues on both sides of the aisle to raise the price of these permits. However, given the power of the trucking lobby and inflation, I bet the subsidy is now huge.

    A maddening part of today’s public policy discussions is the failure to include all of the factors, pluses and minuses, in discussion. Back in the “good old days,” the media would poke everyone to identify and address all the pros and cons. Do EVs produce positive benefits? Yes. How about negative impact? Yes. So, why can’t people discuss everything? The extra weight issues should be explained and discussed – indeed, even debated.

    1. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      It has been treasonous to discuss negs of EV’s due to the urgent need to convince everyone they are the best. although there seems to be some realism cropping in lately.

      EVangelism, we call it.

    2. energyNOW_Fan Avatar
      energyNOW_Fan

      It has been treasonous to discuss negs of EV’s due to the urgent need to convince everyone they are the best. although there seems to be some realism cropping in lately.

      EVangelism, we call it.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        EVs have their negatives for sure especially in their initial versions but
        the folks spewing misinformation and boogeyman luddite stuff need some facts and real-world balance to go with IMO.

        It reminds me of the folks who argued just as vociferously against unleaded gas, ethanol, increased gas mileage regs, pollution restrictions, etc… ozone hole refrigerant changes, the “war on coal”, etc, etc, etc… same church…different pews.. same folks.

        1. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
          f/k/a_tmtfairfax

          But the negatives are real just as the positives are. The same holds true for gasoline-powered vehicles. The problem is that we don’t seem to have the requisite discussion.

          One question that comes to mind is: Since EVs have fewer parts and much simpler motors, why are they so much more expensive than gasoline-powered vehicles? Another question is: What level of investment in electric generation and distribution is required to handle a country with say 50% of all vehicles being electric?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Are EV’s more expensive than non EVs? What level of investment – if EVs are charged at non-peak times using power that is not in demand for other uses?

          2. WayneS Avatar

            Are EV’s more expensive than non EVs?

            Yes, they are. It costs more to purchase one than it costs to purchase a comparable gasoline powered car. Some people are not wealthy enough to ignore the initial cost. How many electric cars do you own?

            And purchasing a vehicle for your daily life, no matter what powers it, is an expense, not an investment.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            It might be like saying is a high efficiency HVAC that uses much less energy over the long run but has a high up front cost “worth it”? No? An EV is said to cost 1/2 to operate than a non EV – equivalent to about 1/2 the equivalent cost of gasoline. That would be LESS expense, no?

    3. how_it_works Avatar
      how_it_works

      Out where I live, VDOT supposedly told one of my neighbors that the reason the road is falling apart is because the county is allowing the dump trucks to use the road by granting them a permit.

      1)If the road cannot handle dump trucks loaded to the legal limit, it should have a weight limit posted on it, like they do in other states.

      2)It is not up to the county to regulate what vehicles are allowed on VDOT roads.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        correct. Your neighbor was probably wrong. Think about it. Everywhere a house is built – the road needs to support heavy trucks including concrete trucks, right?

        1. how_it_works Avatar
          how_it_works

          Yes, what VDOT supposedly told the neighbor is that PWC shouldn’t have approved the new housing development which is the reason the dump trucks are using the road. (It’s by-right; they can’t–unless they’d like to be on the wrong side of a lawsuit that they will lose).

          1. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            VDOT sets design standards for roads including weights. If a road is built and provides access to property, it has to meet minimum weight standards or be posted with weight restrictions.

            There’s a reason why you see full size tractor trailers and concrete trucks on most all Va secondary roads – they are designed to handle those weights.

            https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/sites/default/files/forms/dmv109.pdfhttps://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fcf7004645f5ba3a89924de9693ce37d97147c217644fb8828a83398e5f93b55.png

          2. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            They’re supposed to be designed to handle those weights, anyway.

            If someone at VDOT really is blaming the dump trucks for the damage to the road, one or more people at VDOT need to be fired. Not even “retrained”. Just fired.

          3. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            well there is some daylight between “theory” and practice in terms of the byrd era secondary road that simply do not have the road bed depth of modern day roads especially on the margins/ditch edge.

          4. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            The ones where they just slapped pavement over dirt quick fast and in a hurry, then called it good enough.

          5. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            That’s basically what they did when Va decided to take over county roads initially. Over time, after that, they made improvements to many and still are but the reality is there were a lot of Byrd era roads
            and not all have been brought up to modern standards. BTW, counties are free to do more if they wish. No one is telling them they can’t! VDOT just allocates X dollars per year .. they can’t do it all at once. It’s the localities that keep approving more and more development along older roads without requiring the developers upgrade them.

          6. how_it_works Avatar
            how_it_works

            If the developers do any upgrades at all, it’s usually the addition of a turn lane and maybe a traffic signal.

            Reality is that these roads won’t have their underlying issues corrected until they are widened, if that ever happens.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            Va does not allow localities to collect proffers for more than the immediate vicinity. But they DO allow service districts and transportation districts and county referenda to upgrade specific roads – which my county does do as does Stafford. It boils down to whether you want to pay more for better roads beyond what the State will allocate to you from transpo taxes.

  10. Marty Chapman Avatar
    Marty Chapman

    My personal anecdotal experience while walking my dog in our leafy Chesterfield sub-division (no sidewalks) involves a couple close calls with EVs because they are so quiet.

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      You can’t hear them coming. EVs and Hybrids. Now the old 1970 VW Beetle I have. Everybody knows when I am coming by.

    2. Thomas Carter Avatar
      Thomas Carter

      Walk on the left facing traffic.

      1. Marty Chapman Avatar
        Marty Chapman

        But alas I eventually have to turn right and cross the street. More than once a fast moving, but oh so quiet EV has emerged over a slight hill as I was crossing.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        200 traffic tickets a DAY in 2 school zones in Richmond. I’m betting the vast majority of them were NOT EVs.

  11. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    They can add noise to an EV, they cannot remove weight from a 60-ton tractor-trailer. Well, they can. It’s called unloading.

    The cranes at NIT handle 40-ton containers all of the time. With new tandem trailers, those trucks are pushing massive weight. Wouldn’t do to get hit.

  12. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    I was never joking when I’ve said Jaywalking is safer. You can only get hit from one direction at a time. Corners are for suckers.

    A simple change could save pedestrian lives. Angle the crosswalk. Currently, intersections have, moving back from the corner, the crosswalk, the right lane stop bar, then the left lane(s) stop bar(s) some 6’ back to afford the right turn on red vehicle a view to the left. But this means the best left view is when stopped in the crosswalk (if on a pedestrian, so be it).

    Instead, put the right turn stop bar at the very corner, and the crosswalk one car length behind that. This means the crosswalk entrance is between the 1st and 2nd car in the right lane and angle it to be in front of the cars in the left lane(s). This moves the left lane stop bars a little further back.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      Cars are safer than ever but drivers are not and getting worse…even when they KNOW they are in proximity to pedestrians, they still drive too fast and aggressively. 200 tickets a day in Richmond in a school zone.

  13. Thomas Carter Avatar
    Thomas Carter

    From Harry’s Garage – “I’m back in a diesel after 4 yrs running both EV & PHEV. What needs to change to get me to go back?”

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      It’s still evolving and needs to get better. I’m sure folks remember the issues when we went to unleaded gas, ethanol, and tighter pollution standards.

  14. WayneS Avatar

    A study found that electric vehicles place twice as much stress on roads as gas-powered vehicles. That means more cracks in the pavement.

    And asphalt is made from…

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