by James A. Bacon

In a recent post, “Spotlighting the Wrong Victims,” I questioned the premise that “disparities” in arrests and suspensions of Henrico County students for school offenses represented some form of racial injustice. John Butcher, author of CrankysBlog, sheds further light on the issue. Read this post as a footnote to the original.

First, John notes, Henrico County has been reporting fewer disciplinary incidents each year for its high schools, as reflected by the number of individual offenders as a percentage of the school population:

Henrico_offenders

What’s noteworthy here is that the most dramatic declines occurred at Henrico’s predominantly black high schools. On the surface, the trend looks highly positive. Fewer students are experiencing disciplinary issues. Perhaps Henrico County’s new politically correct approach to handling problems, put into place at the instigation of the ACLU and U.S. Justice Department, is working!

Alternatively, perhaps school administrators aren’t recording incidents they once would have. Perhaps they’re hiding the problem and, by hiding it, failing to deal with it — a very bad thing. We can’t tell from this data. But we need to know.

Next, John took the offense data from each school and graphed it in relationship to (1) the percentage of black students and (2) the percentage of economically disadvantaged children.

offense_frequency

The correlation between the percentage of children experiencing a disciplinary offense and the percentage of blacks in a high school was very high — an r² of 0.907. But the correlation with the percentage of economically disadvantaged students was even higher — an r² of .9619, which is extraordinarily high. As John observes, “Correlation is NOT causation but at least this is consistent with the notion [that] the root of the disorder is economic status, not race.”

Bacon’s bottom line: Do-gooders who attribute the high rates of arrest and suspensions among black Henrico County students to prejudice, discrimination or institutional bias are fanning the flames of racial resentment with little basis in fact. I’m not stating that discrimination doesn’t exist but I am saying that the do-gooders have not presented meaningful evidence that it does.

As an alternative explanation, I hypothesize that the critical variables affecting the likelihood that a student will be arrested or suspended from Henrico County schools are sociological. Students classified as “economically disadvantaged” are far more likely than other students to come from dysfunctional families where the biological father is absent, where there are substance abuse issues, where there are domestic violence issues, where adolescents are more subject to the peer pressure of “the street,” and, in sum, where adolescents, especially boys, do not learn the rules of behavior required for a school setting.

Poor discipline in school is not a race issue. It’s a class issue. By making it a race issue, I would argue, the do-gooders are distracting school administrators from dealing with the real problems.

Here’s a prediction. Henrico’s politically correct response to the “racial disparity” controversy will undermine administrators’ efforts to maintain school discipline. Actual discipline will suffer, even if not reflected in the reported statistics. Deteriorating discipline will negatively impact classroom teaching conditions, mainly in schools where the discipline problems are concentrated. Standard of Learning (SOL) scores will suffer. Disadvantaged black students who abide by the rules will suffer the most.


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26 responses to “Do-Gooders Doing Bad”

  1. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
    LifeOnTheFallLine

    If he didn’t filter out the black children from the economically disadvantaged children then his results aren’t what you think theyare, especially since black children are for more likely as a cohort to have poverty inflicted on them. What this shows is that black students are more likely to face disciplinary charges in school and that when you compound that with poverty it gets worse.

    I’m not sure why it matters so much to you to keep trying to force a square peg into a round hole, here. Even if the problem is poverty not race you still offer no solutions aside from finger wagging. White people created a white supremacist system and it distorts outcomes everywhere, why is that harder to deal with than poverty?

    1. “White people created a white supremacist system and it distorts outcomes everywhere, why is that harder to deal with than poverty?”

      Race baiting liberal hogwash.

      Run a correlation of Asian – American students and tell me how that turns out.

      Re: Thomas Jefferson High School in Fairfax County, VA

      ” The prestigious public school was most recently ranked #1 in Virginia by U.S. News & World Report and #4 in the country by the magazine.

      Of the 487 students, 323 or 66.3 percent are Asian-American, according to statistics released by FCPS. Of the total population in the county, Asian-Americans make up 18 percent of the population as of 2013.”

      http://patch.com/virginia/annandale/tj-admissions-66-percent-of-new-class-identified-as-asian-ethnicity#.VCyyCCtdVUM

      How does that square with the white supremacist system that distorts outcomes everywhere?

      Asian American success. The antidote to liberal hallucinations.

      1. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
        LifeOnTheFallLine

        You’re right a society that used sacred, stolen land to carve the faces of a slave owner, a slave rapist, a man who wanted to send all the former slaves back to Africa and a man who encouraged whites to breed as much as possible lest they face “race suicide” into the side of a mountain couldn’t possibly have white supremacy woven through its fabric. I’m just a on some crazy liberal racial peyote.

        Let’s run a thought experiment. Jewish communities in Europe were able to carve out successful niches for themselves and their families, by that logic Europe had no problem with anti-Semitism, which is why when Germany started its final solution all those European countries open their doors and World War II didn’t include the eradication of 6 million Jews.

        Just because a group is successful inside an adversarial framework doesn’t mean the framework doesn’t exist. And it also doesn’t mean there isn’t a hierarchy within that framework. Japanese Americans were still rounded up and put in camps in huge numbers when the Unites States decided they couldn’t trust them. But here’s a systemic difference – eventually reparations were paid out to those internment camp survivors and their heirs. Did the government ever pay out reparations to the former slaves and their descendants? Why not? It’s almost like blacks in America are at the bottom of the list.

        Right now the status quo doesn’t view Asians as a threat. But last time it did – in the 80s when the Japanese were going to eat us alive – the fervor got so heated it lead to the murder of Vincent Chin whose murderers beat him to death with a baseball bat and got off with manslaughter charges.

        But, right, I’m the delusional one.

        1. Isn’t there some liberal theorem against using the Holocost as a point of comparison? Do you want Nancy Pelosi to come by your house and take your liberal card away?

          Let’s see if I can debug your logic.

          The problems with poor behavior in today’s suburban schools in Henrico County is because America is a white supremacist nation. That can be proven by the fact that there was once slavery practiced in America. Wouldn’t you think that a white supremacist nation could have prevented the election of an African American president?

          Asian Americans are “safe” from the white supremacist nation because they don’t threaten the white supremacists who secretly run America. However, once they become threatening – watch out. Somebody might need to use their secret decoder ring to bang out a message to the white supremacists letting them know that, as far as I can see, the Asian Americans have already passed the white supremacists in educational attainment – as a group. They also have the highest income of any group – http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/asian-americans-lead-all-others-in-household-income/.

          Lazy white supremacists. Asleep at the switch while Asian Americans emphasized hard work and the value of education to get ahead.

          You and Nancy Pelosi need to huddle and write a new liberal script. Those pesky, successful Asian Americans are just throwing your white supremacist theory out the window. Maybe it’s a white / Asian conspiracy. Do you think that story has legs? Maybe not. Oh well, nobody said that writing race baiting political theories would be easy.

          1. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
            LifeOnTheFallLine

            That is the worst invocation of Godwin’s law I have ever seen in my life. And Nancy Pelosi, really? Tighten up.

            Anyway.

            “The problems with poor behavior in today’s suburban schools in Henrico County is because America is a white supremacist nation.”

            This is not what I said. You and Bacon take it at face value that the disciplinary reaction is actually justified and not the result of bias on the behalf of those in charge. First, we’ll jump over to our criminal justice system for an analog.

            As you may or may not know, whites are far more likely to engage in drug use than their black counterparts (http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/quicktables/quickconfig.do?34481-0001_all). However, blacks are arrested on drug charges three to five times more often than their white counterparts (http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/related_material/8%20Fellner_FINAL.pdf). When sentenced, black males end up with prison terms 20% longer than their white male counterparts for the same time, and they’re 25% less likely than their white peers to get a sentence of less time than the sentencing guidelines recommend. Black murderers are more likely to receive the death sentence and white victims are more likely to have the death penalty invoked in the their cases (https://www.aclu.org/capital-punishment/race-and-death-penalty) and in cases where there is a black defendant and a white victim, the more stereotypicaly black a defendant is the more likely they are to receive the death penalty (http://www.uky.edu/AS/PoliSci/Peffley/pdf/Eberhardt.2006.Psych%20Sci.Looking%20Deathworthy.pdf). In a psychological study, respondents were more likely to falsely identify a blurry object in a picture as a gun if they saw a black face beforehand and more likely to falsely identify a blurry object as a hand tool if they saw a white face beforehand (http://www.unc.edu/~bkpayne/publications/Payne%2006.pdf).

            In the education system, it was found that black students make up 18% of preschool enrollment, but 42% of preschool students who were suspended once and 48% of preschoolers who were suspended at least twice (http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/expansive-survey-americas-public-schools-reveals-troubling-racial-disparities). Moreover, 12 percent of black girls across all age ranges received at least one suspension, compared to 2 percent of white girls and 6 percent of white boys (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2014/03/21/study-black-girls-suspended-at-higher-rates-than-most-boys/).

            So, no, white supremacy doesn’t make black people behave poorly, it makes the people in charge of doling out punishment more likely to perceive blacks as inherently criminal and more likely to penalize them more harshly compared to their white counterparts.

            “Wouldn’t you think that a white supremacist nation could have prevented the election of an African American president?”

            Sure, and it did so for over 200 years, but exceptional individuals do exist. It’s like saying because Harriet Tubman escaped from slavery then there wasn’t a system to protect and propagate slavery. And it should be noted that Barack Obama was indeed the first black president, but the white side of his family had resources that most black Americans don’t, and that having a grandmother who was a vice president at a bank meant he had access to resources most white don’t.

            “Asian Americans are ‘safe’ from the white supremacist nation because they don’t threaten the white supremacists who secretly run America.”

            Again, this isn’t actually what I said. What I said is that there’s a hierarchy involved in the white supremacist structure of this country and its institutions that puts blacks on the bottom and that the system doesn’t put as much pressure on Asians because they currently aren’t viewed as threatening in the same way.

            Which isn’t to say they don’t suffer under the current system, because they do.

            Compared to their representation at top public schools (40 to 70 percent) Asians only make up 12 to 18 percent of the student body at Ivy League schools. Furthermore, white students were more than three times as likely to get into selective universities as Asians with similar academic records (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/20/opinion/asians-too-smart-for-their-own-good.html?_r=0). Also, Asian men earn 8 percent less than their white counterparts in the same job with the same educational attainment (http://asr.sagepub.com/content/75/6/934.short), and that’s just for American born Asian men, the effect is worse for Asian men born outside the US. Asians in America also face housing discrimination, and are less likely to be shown homes compared to whites (http://www.nationalcapacd.org/press-room/asian-americans-face-significant-housing-discrimination-according-study-us-department-hou).

            Step your game up, son.

          2. wow – how did you get ALL those links in there without getting it sent to moderation? or perhaps it did and it took this long for Bacon to release it.

            but yes… I’m surprised that DonR engaged in that kind of thing… both in terms of his racial perspective and then tying it to liberal thought – which is how the civil rights issues were portrayed in the civil rights era and in Va with massive resistance.

            I’d be perfectly fine if Jim wanted to adjust his narrative to be color-blind but targeted to economically disadvantaged – and then let Don and others draw the racial inferences rather than allowing them to join in with the original blog post.

            why do we have to make this racial to begin with?

            this is what happens to any color economically disadvantaged especially in schools that do not provide them with the kind of educational resources they need – i.e. starting with Head Start and continuing with the head-start techniques to teach to the economically disadvantaged so they end up successful on their SOLs as they transition to MS and HS?

            instead – we get this overtly racial narrative that implies it’s culture and cannot be overcome – despite ample evidence that there ARE schools that SUCCESSFULLY deal with this issue. Instead, we excuse the schools that are not successful.

            If there were no economic consequences, one could just take a morally repugnant position and be done with it but for anyone who claims to be a fiscal conservative – the “walk away” option – does not exist in reality. We all pay more when we walk away.

            again – let me emphasize – not all kids can be reached – but when some schools reach all but 10% while other schools fail to reach 50% there is something wrong that needs to be 1. recognized and 2. dealt with

  2. I never understood how assigning fault to the youngers getting in trouble with the law – solved anything.

    it appears that the idea is to 1. blame the parents 2. blame the kids 3. say that nothing can be done 4. walk away… saying it’s a “culture” problem.

    if you think this sounds bad – you’re right.

    1. “I never understood how assigning fault to the youngers getting in trouble with the law – solved anything.”

      Yes, personal responsibility has no place in liberal America. When a high school aged youth breaks the law it is nobody’s fault. Not the kid’s fault, not the parents’ fault, nobody’s fault. How old does one have to be before they are responsible for their actions? 30? 40? 50?

  3. how does assigning fault get to solving the problem ?

    I’m 100% the opposite here. I hold personal responsibility in the highest regard – something everyone should aspire but it’s a joke when looking at people in general especially their actions these days on highways and in other aspects of life.

    but the bigger problem you have here is trying to hold responsible someone who was raised by parents who live in poverty – as a direct consequence of a bad education… and the cycle continues…if the kids do not acquire the necessary reading and writing and math skills by the time they get to high school.

    you talk about Asians as if they too were transported to America on slave ships and have overcome – generations of inequitable treatment – by the education system. Tell me where Asians were subjected to Massive Resistance in Va.

    Unlike Asians, black people have been GENERATIONALLY denied a basic education – and it continues in some schools TODAY – and it leads to poverty – and you blather on about personal responsibility.

    what we’ve seen with the SOL data is this:

    1. – that at the state level – there is a persistent “gap:

    2. – at the school district level – we still see the racial gap

    3. – at the individual school levels – we see HUGE disparities between schools of black achievement scores that few here see a need to explain other than “we can’t fix everything”.

    what does anyone here want to bet that if you looked at the SOL scores of the kids who are trouble – that those scores are bad – and were bad all the way back to k-3?

    so we have this narrative – that in K-3, it’s bad parents and bad teachers as to why black kids do not pass the SOLs

    and then when they get older and go to high school with crummy educations – it’s NOW their fault for getting into trouble when they realize the future they face.

    you enslave a people, deny them a decent education for generations then blame them for the outcomes and talk about personal responsibility.

    oh .. and we say it is “liberal” to speak these truths…

    I’ve posted schools here where blacks DO score higher than whites – even economically disadvantaged…

    when this happens at a school level – what does that mean when there are other schools where the gap continues?

    Don- do you know how many elementary schools in Fairfax have failed to get fully-accredited ? Do you know what the racial makeup of those schools are?

    would you like me to post those schools and their achievement scores -black, white and asian – and then let you blame someone?

    you guys don’t see the link here between poor academic performance in grade school – and bad behavior in high school do you? do you think all those black kids in trouble for behavior have exemplary SOL scores and the irresponsible behavior is in their genes?

    talk about refusing to deal with realities….. would anyone here be “surprised” to find a correlation between bad behavior and bad SOL scores regardless of race?

    maybe Jim can go off and crunch some more numbers to “prove” that after removing all these other factors – that black folks still misbehave more than white folks, eh?

    1. You are slipping around on bald tires here Larry. There is a big difference between holding somebody responsible for a crime they commit and holding somebody responsible for not achieving success.

      This was your original comment – “I never understood how assigning fault to the youngers getting in trouble with the law – solved anything.”

      So, if a 17 year old robs you or stabs you the first thing you’ll need to check is their bank account. If the kid has money he needs to go to jail. But if the kid is poor, well … it’s not his fault. Let him go. I guess being poor somehow genetically removes the morality of those who are poor. They can commit crimes and we shouldn’t waste our time assigning blame.

      That’s the liberal plantation Larry. If you are poor you need take no responsibility for yourself.

      Do you think the majority of economically disadvantaged African Americans are criminals? If not, why do some people in that group commit crimes while most do not?

      1. re: ” So, if a 17 year old robs you or stabs you the first thing you’ll need to check is their bank account. If the kid has money he needs to go to jail. But if the kid is poor, well … it’s not his fault. Let him go. I guess being poor somehow genetically removes the morality of those who are poor. They can commit crimes and we shouldn’t waste our time assigning blame.”

        Kids don’t grow up to be thieves but if the kid fails to get an education and gets to high school without a real hope for a future – guess what happens?

        and it don’t matter what color they are no matter how many times ignorant people try to link being black to being criminal.

        I’m not excusing bad behavior or criminal behavior. You do the crime, you do the time.

        but I AM asking if a kid in K=3 fails to gain basic competency in reading, writing and math – and gets into high school as a functional illiterate are you surprised that they fall into bad and illegal behaviors when they know they are pretty much doomed in terms of getting a job and affording the necessities of life?

        some folks want to walk away – saying there is nothing we can do – that it is pre-ordained.

        I want to know if that is true – why do we have such huge disparities in black academic performance in elementary schools…

        You can blather Pelosi and all the liberal hobgoblins you want but you and your kids are the ones who are going to pay for how we currently educate.

        Do you really think you can throw a young man into prison for dealing street drugs and have him get out in a few years and become a productive member of society?

        Our approach to this is not only morally repugnant – it’s economically dumb.

        If you really want to cut the deficit, cut back on entitlements, have less folks in prison, you won’t get there with this approach to education.

        If almost if some of us are defiant – as to recognizing the problem and doing something about it – it’s a “liberal” do-gooder problem that a problem for all of us.

  4. Now now, guys! You all know there’s non-exclusive truth in all these correlations, and no correlation proves causation (though causation is more likely the greater the correlation). The man in the street understands there are racial and economic and parental and teaching competence and social ‘do-gooder’ issues all mixed up here; the problem with the man in the street is he jumps to the conclusion that one is the dominant factor for external reasons that just don’t follow from the facts in front of us. Thanks, Jim, for focusing on what we do as opposed to don’t know.

    1. when trying to focus on causation – as the reason why we cannot do anything – what does it mean?

      In Virginia – we have black kids scoring the same as white kids and asians at some schools – while at the same time – at other schools – sometimes in the same district – we have 40 point differences between white and black performance. This is in elementary school.

      Some of this kind of gap is actually present in some schools in Henrico and Fairfax – where in the same district we have high performing black kids in one school and significant gaps in other schools – even among blacks themselves!

      when asked to explain why blacks in one school perform 30% higher than blacks in another school…

      we get blog posts about how backs are more “criminal” in high school.

      some answer, eh?

  5. re: ” Perhaps Henrico County’s new politically correct approach to handling problems, put into place at the instigation of the ACLU and U.S. Justice Department, is working!”

    how did you get here?

    how did you start out originally talking about black behavior issues then get informed that the numbers are improving then decide someone is cooking the books for political correctness?

    I’ll not defend the left or even the ACLU but this seems to be how the right talks these days. its stringing together things that “sound” “plausible” but the hard evidence is no where to be found.

    how does this lead to a better understanding much less what to do ?

    if I believe the higher level narrative – it says that poverty begets kids who end up as adults in trouble with the law.

    but laced throughout the discussion are veiled racial references and it’s not just me that picks up on them.

    and at the end of the day – I wonder what the message is.

    I have a rather simple-minded idea and that is if a child has good grades in elementary school – regardless of what their economic circumstances are or even if the have one uneducated parent – if they have good grades when they go into middle and high school – they know it is valuable and they seek to preserve it and look forward to a future where good grades pave the way to that future.

    if you totaled up all the behavior and criminal problems that schools do collect data on – what percentage of the offenders would have good SOL grades? I think you are looking a failed students.. not class and not race.

    so basically what I get out of these narratives is that kids do bad in elementary school because they have ignorant, culturally-bankrupt parents that do not/cannot help their kids – and then when the kids get to middle and high school – with failed SOLs, they are inclined towards bad behavior and criminal inclinations.

    to which I would respond – “no Guano” … !!! but what is YOUR solution?

    Jim’s narrative seems to be – that there is no solution… it’s a disease without a cure…

    and I actually might be persuaded to agree – .. if it were not for the huge disparities in academic performance – across schools – which Jim dismisses as .. “just the way it is”.

    it would be – in my view – morally repugnant to take such a position but it’s much, much worse – it’s economically ignorant – a willful ignorance… one that basically takes the position that we’ll have a permanent underclass that the kids today will pay for when they grow up.

    all I can do is shake my head in the breathtaking “logic” in play.

    1. Larry, c’mon. Don’t take stuff out of context. Here’s what I wrote:

      On the surface, the trend looks highly positive. Fewer students are experiencing disciplinary issues. Perhaps Henrico County’s new politically correct approach to handling problems, put into place at the instigation of the ACLU and U.S. Justice Department, is working!

      Alternatively, perhaps school administrators aren’t recording incidents they once would have. Perhaps they’re hiding the problem and, by hiding it, failing to deal with it — a very bad thing. We can’t tell from this data. But we need to know.

      1. re: ” Alternatively, perhaps school administrators aren’t recording incidents they once would have. Perhaps they’re hiding the problem and, by hiding it, failing to deal with it — a very bad thing. We can’t tell from this data. But we need to know.”

        re: ” I highlighted the school division of West Point, where black kids outperformed white kids on SOL pass rates. I asked, what’s their secret sauce. Someone should find out”

        so you don’t think the West Point folks are cooking data but you think the Henrico folks might be?

        😉

        I can be a data skeptic too – especially when an organization with an agenda is coming up with data to support it’s philosophy, etc

        and I’ll admit – that there are incidences of cheating these days on standardized tests and actually some Fed investigations in Va …

        but…. one way to validate data – is to compare it … across different jurisdictions – something I’ve mentioned a few times here about SOL scores being so different for the same demographics – across schools.

        so you might check that out and see if different schools with similar demographics are reporting – very different numbers of incidents. there are indeed a number of other schools in Virginia similar in demographics and and percentage of demographics – i.e. largely black economically disadvantaged schools.

        perhaps you might compare West Point.. or Lynchburg or Richmond.

        but again – what exactly would you expect from teens who have grown up in poverty and likely failed their SOLs in elementary school regardless of their color? Even back in my day – most of the behavior problems in high school were invariably the ones that were failed at academics. The kids that made good grades were invariably the better behaved.

  6. Also, Larry, when I started this series on SOLs, I highlighted the school division of West Point, where black kids outperformed white kids on SOL pass rates. I asked, what’s their secret sauce. Someone should find out.

    I wish I had the time to visit West Point and find out myself, but I don’t.

  7. Larry asked, “Why do we have to make this racial to begin with?”

    I don’t know. Why don’t you ask the ACLU and the U.S. Justice Department?

    1. no.. why DO YOU have to make the argument along racial lines instead of economically disadvantaged lines?

      has the ACLU and Justice department intervened in the Henrico School system?

      but you may also recall – way back when schools were separate “but equal”, – there was no involvement of the ACLU and Justice Dept – when racism was rampant, tolerated and encouraged.

      they got involved AFTER there was no intent for the state to act…

      1. I raise the race issue only in response to people, like you and Fall Line, who insist that race, prejudice and discrimination are fundamental to understanding the differences in educational outcomes. Your logic goes like this. Educational outcomes between the races are different. Unequal distribution resources is at the root of the problem. Therefore, more money must be spent on schools with predominantly black populations.

        I’m simply questioning that logic. I think funding should be equal for all students. But that’s not good enough for you. You say some students deserve more funding than others because they have greater needs. And I think that’s a tough sell when you’re asking middle-class households to pay more taxes to benefit lower-income households at the expense of their own kids — especially when there is little evidence that spending more money will do any lasting good. If money were the problem, then the Kansas City experiment — raising taxes to spend more money on public schools — would have been a big success. But it wasn’t. Taxpayers got hosed and results didn’t improve.

        You’re happy to soak middle-class taxpayers to pay for your social theories but your social theories don’t stand up. If you guys didn’t have your hand in my pocket, it wouldn’t be an issue. But you do.

        1. I think if you look back on the SOL thing – to your original post you talk about the “racial” gap – did you not?

          and all along in this conversation I have asked if teaching the economically disadvantaged – regardless of race is the issue?

          re: ” I’m simply questioning that logic. I think funding should be equal for all students. But that’s not good enough for you. You say some students deserve more funding than others because they have greater needs. And I think that’s a tough sell when you’re asking middle-class households to pay more taxes to benefit lower-income households.”

          it’s not good enough for me – for important reasons, some of which you claim to be concerned with:

          1. – we KNOW that those with uneducated and poor parents do not learn the same way – that we teach the “easier and cheaper to teach” students.

          2. – we KNOW that they CAN learn if the proper resources are allocated.

          3. – we KNOW that programs like Head Start and Title 1 are specifically funded for these groups..

          4. – we KNOW that some schools do not target the Title 1 resources to where they were intended to be spent and when that happens the kids who need those resources will and do fail.

          but most important – if you are a true fiscal conservative who says he worries about cost-benefit – why in the world would you make this argument when you KNOW all of us will be paying in higher taxes for entitlements and prisons for people we KNOW can be taught and grow up to become employed and pay taxes?

          why do you follow this line when you KNOW it’s morally repugnant and economically idiotic?

          we blather on and on about settlement patterns, smart growth, bad investments in highways, etc.. etc.. almost always with a fiscal conservative theme – until we get to this. Then it’s all about anything and everything racial and forget the economic consequences.

        2. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
          LifeOnTheFallLine

          No, I don’t insist it, I show it. I provide studies that show structural differences in how blacks are treated compared to their white counterparts. You continuously refuse to engage them directly, which either means you think that Henrico is distinct from the rest of the United States and the studies are invalid or you can’t so you just ignore them.

          1. it’s worse than that – he starts out talking about racial “gaps” then devolves into musings about culture and gangsta rap.

            these gaps are far more about poverty, parents who lack an education and lack the ability and the motivation to help their kids learn – and should not be about race at all.. It’s no coincidence in the South and in Virginia there are generational harm for blacks … but interpreting that a a “culture” problem is little short of despicable..

            but even if someone wanted to believe all of that pap – if they claim to be a fiscal conservative – they KNOW that ONE YEAR of entitlements as an adult – is PROVEN to pay for the additional costs to successfully educated economically disadvantaged kids so it’s totally incomprehensible that ANYONE would make money in elementary school the issue when entitlement money later on completely swamps the cost-benefit outcome.

            and no – we cannot save every kid – but when SOME schools can reduce the gap to within a few points – and other schools in the SAME DISTRICT have 30-40-50 point gaps – it’s unconscionable and ironic that a critic of the public school system NOW aligns themselves with the obstinance and refusal of neighborhood schools to do – what other schools in Va successfully do.

            the whole narrative here – in about a dozen separate blog posts – just reeks … and is disappointing.

            as long as we DO have schools in Va that successfully teach the economically disadvantaged – any assertions to the contrary for other schools is disturbingly bogus.

          2. LifeOnTheFallLine Avatar
            LifeOnTheFallLine

            You and I agree on a lot, but the truth is that being black in America is a fundamentally different experience from being white in this country, rich or poor. All the extra education spending in the world isn’t going to change the fact that white teachers are more likely to view their black students as threatening.

            That said, I’m with you in not understanding why Jim needs to keep scratching this itch. Especially since he dissolves into anecdotes and culture scolding so quickly. He’ll wrangle with every study and piece of data he can find on urbanism and return on investment of public projects, but here he’s just like “See, graphs! Parents didn’t show up at my son’s school! Oogie boogie!”

          3. I know that being black in this country is not what most whites think it is… but I have seen change – real change in the younger generations but they are still susceptible to the argument that they do not discriminate and are not responsible for what happened in the past…

            I can’t change people’s attitudes – but I can point out obvious disparities and insist that it’s morally repugnant and fiscally irresponsible to make bogus excuses for educational inequities for the disadvantaged of any race.

            racist attitudes and stereotyping die hard in Virginia.. it’s a long hard slog…

            whites truly do not understand blacks especially the younger ones and they do feel threatened by them…

          4. How the War on Drugs Damages Black Social Mobility

            Imprisoning One in Three Black Men

            An estimated one-third of black male Americans will spend time in state or federal prison at some point in their lifetime – more than double the rate from the 1970s and over five times higher than the rate for white males.

            What’s driving the imprisonment of black men? Arrest data show a striking trend: arrests of blacks have fallen for violent and property crimes, but soared for drug related crimes. As of 2011, drug crimes comprised 14 percent of all arrests and a miscellaneous category that includes “drug paraphernalia” possession comprised an additional 31 percent of all arrests. Just 6 percent and 14 percent of arrests were for violent and property crimes, respectively.

            http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/social-mobility-memos/posts/2014/09/30-war-on-drugs-black-social-mobility-rothwell

            of course we’ve heard of “wonderful” programs in Richmond to help convicted felons recover from their incarceration…………..

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