UVA Groups Are Hamas Proxies, Lawsuit Contends

by James A. Bacon

Matan Goldstein, a first-year Israeli-American student at the University of Virginia, has filed a lawsuit against President Jim Ryan and Rector Robert Hardie, alleging that they stood by and did nothing while pro-Hamas groups subjected him to harassment, intimidation and abuse for his religious and ethnic identity.

Goldstein drew attention as one of the only Jewish students at UVA willing to publicly defend Israel after the Hamas terror attack on Oct. 7, 2023. He was insulted, ostracized and spit upon. His pleas to the administration went unheeded. According to the lawsuit, Ryan and Hardie declined to intervene even when the president of the UVA chapter of the Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) sought to silence him by filing bogus Honor Code charges against him.

“Pro-Hamas students have turned what once was a beautiful bastion of enlightened freethinking and tolerance into a trash-laden wasteland of antisemitic and anti-Israeli hate, and Defendants UVA, Ryan, and Hardie allowed it to happen,” states the lawsuit, which was filed May 17. Goldstein is represented in the case by the Charlottesville law firm Brown & Gavalier PLLC.

For a quick overview of the lawsuit, read the article in Virginia Business magazine. But that story skims the surface. The lawsuit consolidates a vast body of material about antisemitism at UVA, much of which will be familiar to Bacon’s Rebellion readers but some of which is new. Anyone deeply interested in the subject should consult the lawsuit itself, a highly readable document expressed in colorful language.

There is far too much detail to include in a single article, so I shall address major themes in separate posts. Today I will explore the lawsuit’s argument that the expressions of pro-Palestinian support at UVA were orchestrated by pro-Hamas groups, at least in part, as part of a broader propaganda campaign rolled out in conjunction with Hamas’ Oct. 7, 2023, assault on Israel.

American Muslims for Palestine. The Goldstein lawsuit draws heavily upon a separate lawsuit, Parizer et al, filed May 1 in U.S. District Court in Alexandria against the National Students for Justice in Palestine.

According to the Parizer lawsuit, Hamas sent out a “global call” hours after launching its terror attacks to justify its actions.

Defendant AJP Educational Foundation, Inc. a/k/a American Muslims for Palestine (“AMP”) serves as Hamas’s propaganda division in the United States. AMP was founded from the ashes of disbanded organizations created by senior Hamas officials after those organizations and related individuals were founded criminally and civilly liable for providing material support to Hamas and other affiliated terrorist groups. In 2010, AMP expanded its operation to American college campuses when it founded … National Students for Justice in Palestine (“NSJP”) to control hundreds of Students for Justice in Palestine (“SJP”) chapters across the country….

(In November Virginia Attorney General Jason Miyares announced that he had opened an investigation into American Muslims for Palestine for potential violations of Virginia’s charitable solicitation laws, including “providing support to terrorist organizations.” The group denounced Miyares’ announcement as defamatory and resisted demands for documents. Results from the investigation have yet to be made public.) The Parizer lawsuit continued:

On October 8, the day after Hamas’s terrorist attack, AMP and NSJP were prepared and responded to Hamas’s “call for mass mobilization” by disseminating a manifesto and plan of attack (“NSJP Toolkit”) which contains materials that appear to have been created before the attack….

As of the filing of this Complaint, AMP and NSJP are — among other things — coordinating the occupation of dozens of college campuses across the country to “force” the American government and academia to bend to its will….

“The Plaintiff hereby expressly incorporates and includes each and every allegation in the Parizer lawsuit as if alleged, word-for-word, in this action,” states the Goldstein lawsuit, which proceeds to describe the Hamas proxies at UVA.

Photo from a May 2024 pro-Hamas “encampment” depicting faculty members and faculty “liaisons.”

The UVA chapter of the Faculty for Justice in Palestine is a “formal faculty group” comprised of self-described scholars, teachers, faculty, staff, administrators and graduate students. Some are tenured professors who occupy endowed chairs. “FJP at UVA acts in concert with and/or acts and speaks for dozens of other pro-Hamas groups at the University of Virginia,” states the complaint. “Collectively, these groups appear to be comprised of hundreds of University faculty, staff, and administrators.”

The faculty group is not just a paper organization.

FJP at UVA raises funds and seeks donations; convenes meetings; hosts events; promotes other pro-Hamas entities and their events and efforts; makes University-wide “announcements”; issues “Open Letters” to UVA students and the world; has ratified “Principles of Unity” that include a pledge of fealty to “SJP” along with antisemitic declarations; has established a website and an email address; and has a governing body and executive, including the designation of “liaisons” to negotiate with the University of Virginia administration.

The UVA chapter of Faculty for Justice in Palestine was formed in response to a call by USACBI, the US Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel, which in turn is a national SJP proxy, the Goldstein lawsuit alleges. USACBI urged the formation of local faculty groups to support local SJP chapters, provide faculty defense, organize teach-ins, and engage in pro-Palestinian-solidarity work generally.

Declares the lawsuit: “Defendant FJP at UVA is an ‘arm’ or ‘cell’ or ‘chapter’ of the Hamas proxy, National Students for Justice in Palestine, along with its aliases and alter-ego organizations.”

The Students for Justice in Palestine at UVA is a student group recognized by the University as a CIO, or Contracted Independent Organization. “SJP at UVA and its principals have created and act on behalf of and in concert with dozens of similar student organizations that appear to be mere alter egos or aliases for SJP at UVA and are simply additional facsimiles of SJP at UVA,” the Goldstein lawsuit contends.

These facsimile groups include “UVA Apartheid Divest” and “Dissenters@UVA,” says the lawsuit. During a recent meeting with President Ryan to discuss the divestment of UVA endowment assets from Israel, the president of SJP at UVA purported to speak for those two groups.

The UVA chapter parrots NSJP rhetorical themes and borrows graphics from the national group for its own social-media posts.

Talk to National SJP

SJP has gone so far as to direct media inquiries to National SJP, as seen in the flyer distributed by the UVA Chapter, which says, “Students for Justice in Palestine at UVA will not be commenting further or speaking to the media. We ask that you not approach students or organizers for comment. You may reach National SJP, who may be available for comment on this National Day of Action at media@neationalsjp.org.

Local pro-Hamas, UVA faculty and student groups utilized emerged with “slick messaging and public relations efforts” that bore the fingerprints of National SJP, states the Goldstein lawsuit.

One pronouncement, issued the day after attacks that killed 1,200 Israeli citizens, referred to the assault as “an unprecedented feat for the 21st century” and to the terrorists as “resistance fighters in Gaza [who] broke through the illegitimate border defense….” Reciting a litany of Israel’s alleged historical crimes, the SJP-UVA pronouncement went on to “reject the assumption that oppressed people cannot take their liberation into their own hands” and to say, “We stand in solidarity with Palestinian resistance fighters and all oppressed people around the world.”

Shortly after, the FJP at UVA published an “open letter signed by 80+ faculty members sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

In ensuing weeks and months, the SJP sponsored a series of rallies, teach-ins and protests that employed the same vocabulary and iconography as other anti-Israeli demonstrations across the country.

UVA chapters of SJP and FJP distributed the flyer shown above calling for a “teach-in.” The image, explains the Goldstein lawsuit, depicts a massacre site where terrorists (edited out of the photo) entered an Israeli kibbutz to murder civilians. “Decolonization,” says the lawsuit, “is a call to violence, in this case, a call for violence against Israelis.”


Share this article



ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)



ADVERTISEMENT

(comments below)


Comments

66 responses to “UVA Groups Are Hamas Proxies, Lawsuit Contends”

  1. American Pie Avatar
    American Pie

    Here’s some of what the Plaintiff, Matan Goldstein, claims he’s endured:

    “The Plaintiff has lost his innocence, his sense of safety and security, and his belief in the goodness and sanctity of the institutions where he should feel safe and secure and be free.”

    “The Plaintiff is acutely aware that Defendant UVA views and treats him as a “second-class citizen” solely because of his Jewish identity”

    “The Plaintiff has lost an entire year of college—the sacred and near-mythical “UVA First Year Experience” and his entire college experience will be forever tarnished, impaired, and ruined.”

    “The Plaintiff has suffered a profound wounding—a lasting heartache and deep disappointment—as a result of the Defendants’ discrimination”

    “The Plaintiff alleges that the Defendants have illegally and maliciously changed his life forever.”

    “The Plaintiff’s life has been irrevocably altered, harmed, and impaired.”

    “The Plaintiff has suffered mental anguish, severe emotional distress, paralyzing anxiety, constant oppressive fear, depression, feelings of worthlessness, humiliation, embarrassment, and a constant sense of dread and impending doom.”

    “The University of Virginia ignored and rejected the Plaintiff’s pleas for help.”

    “President Ryan and Rector Hardie refuse to … personally even speak a few words of kindness, encouragement or support to [the Plaintiff].”

    “The Plaintiff was forced to engage private counsel at his own expense.”

    (I’ve bolded/italicized certain significant portions)

    1. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      OMG, the poor dear “has lost his innocence”, what a dastardly thing for that evil UVa to countenance for a NJB. It is almost as if UVa was designed as a place to help kids grow up and expand their horizons.

      Fortunately a lawsuit can provide a remedy and restore lost innocence, or something. Who do you suppose is paying for the suit?

    2. Patriot1776 Avatar
      Patriot1776

      Incredible! How dramatic

    3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      If this were a DEI-related lawsuit with this kind of language instead of what JAB and crowd perceive as a political wedge issue, The Jefferson Council would lambast it to no end. Instead we are promised yet another multi-piece propaganda campaign.

  2. American Pie Avatar
    American Pie

    It’s perhaps relevant to include UVA’s response to ADL’s “F” grade, which is alluded to in the lawsuit:

    “We are profoundly disappointed by the ADL’s assessment, which does not reflect the actual climate for Jewish students or other members of our community. We are studying the report card carefully and preparing a direct response. As we made clear in our initial communication to the ADL, we are deeply committed to caring for our students and to confronting antisemitism and other forms of bias. The UVA community has navigated the months since Oct. 7 with grace and compassion, and the University has acted swiftly in response to any and all reports of bias, harassment, discrimination, or violence.

    While we have received several reports of antisemitic behavior, ongoing inquiries into those allegations have yet to return evidence to substantiate the claims or to warrant disciplinary measures, despite substantial investigative efforts. This includes specific allegations of violence against one student at a protest, after which University Police investigated thoroughly, using video evidence, witness statements, and other methods.

    We are still evaluating the entire report card: of the 85 institutions graded, only 2 received an A, 17 received a B, and the remaining 66 schools received a C grade or lower. Roughly 45% of schools received a D or F grade. It appears initially that the ADL negatively graded many institutions for acts of constitutionally-protected speech, protest, or student-led referenda. The University of Virginia was founded on the principles of free expression and student self-governance, and we will continue to honor those values, even as we continue to fully condemn antisemitism and all forms of bigotry and to support members of our community in this challenging time. We can certainly always improve, but we strongly disagree with the subjective conclusions presented in this scorecard.”

    https://www.29news.com/2024/04/11/uva-gets-an-f-campus-antisemitism-report-card/

  3. Centrist89 Avatar
    Centrist89

    “The Plaintiff has suffered a profound wounding—a lasting heartache and deep disappointment—as a result of the Defendants’ discrimination”

    Really something…

  4. American Pie Avatar
    American Pie

    I’ve read the suit and will attempt to further summarize the allegations to the best of my ability. In the lawsuit, it’s claimed that:

    “Pro-Hamas demonstrations and events occurred on a weekly, if not daily, basis in the central campus or original “Grounds” of the University.”

    “Academic departments such as the world-renowned Center for Politics, the vaunted UVA Department of English, the esteemed UVA Corcoran Department of History, the Department of Religious Studies, and the Department of Global Studies, again, naming just a few, have expressed their “support and solidarity” in writing with pro-Hamas UVA faculty and students and the antisemitic discrimination and harassment that has taken place on Grounds against Jewish and Israeli students and faculty.”

    “Pro-Hamas UVA students have turned what once was a beautiful bastion of enlightened freethinking and tolerance into a trash-laden wasteland of antisemitic and antiIsraeli hate, and Defendants UVA, Ryan, and Hardie allowed it to happen. ”

    “Rector Hardie’s outburst was telling and served as strong evidence of the downplaying and denial of antisemitism that has plagued the University for nearly a year.” (This refers to the Ellis-Hardie incident.)

    “The “UVA Encampment for Gaza”—planned, coordinated, and supported by Hamas”

    “Every maneuver by these university-based Hamas proxies was purposefully crafted to achieve the goals of advancing the Hamas agenda here and abroad.”

    “SJP at UVA and its principals have created and act on behalf of and in concert with dozens of similar student organizations that appear to be mere alter egos or aliases for SJP at UVA and are simply additional antisemitic facsimiles of SJP at UVA. These antisemitic, anti Israel, pro-Hamas organizations bear names such as “UVA Apartheid Divest” and “Dissenters @ UVA,” to name but a few.”

    “Pro-Hamas faculty members have offered to tutor and assist pro-Hamas students with their final examination and term paper obligations.”

    “Pro-Hamas faculty members have rendered the entirety of the physical “Grounds” or campus of the University of Virginia, a hostile, unwelcoming, and dangerous space for Jewish students and faculty members.”

    “Today, hundreds of UVA faculty members have openly expressed their support and allegiance to the pro-Hamas movement at UVA. Pro-Hamas faculty members have served as “liaisons” between designated University Administration officials and pro-Hamas faculty and student groups for the coordination of disruptive protests and the entreaty of antisemitic “demands,” in other words, the maintenance of a hostile educational environment for Jewish people.”

    In summary, the lawsuit claims:
    “The University of Virginia is engaged in illegal antisemitic discrimination and harassment.”

    1. American Pie Avatar
      American Pie

      The Center for Politics is listed. Perhaps Larry Sabato will comment…

      1. Patriot1776 Avatar
        Patriot1776

        I’m sure he has better things to do than worry about this stupidity. Larry Sabato, a Hamas sympathizer!? Give me a break

    2. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      The ADL’s redefinition of antisemitism to include criticism of the Israeli government or its crimes against humanity make the charge a badge of honor.

      1. Patriot1776 Avatar
        Patriot1776

        Sad, because antisemitism is a real problem. This conflation hurts Jews more than anyone else

      2. Patriot1776 Avatar
        Patriot1776

        Sad, because antisemitism is a real problem. This conflation hurts Jews more than anyone else

        1. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          Sad, yes, and yes it does. In addition the Israeli government’s murder of Palestinian civilians endangers Israels future as a nation.

  5. American Pie Avatar
    American Pie

    The most significant line in the suit, in my view:

    “Pro-Hamas UVA students have turned what once was a beautiful bastion of enlightened freethinking and tolerance into a trash-laden wasteland of antisemitic and antiIsraeli hate, and Defendants UVA, Ryan, and Hardie allowed it to happen.”

    1. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      And he’s a drama queen too, whoda guessed it.

      1. Patriot1776 Avatar
        Patriot1776

        Precisely

  6. American Pie Avatar
    American Pie

    There appears to be a splinter among the UVA Jewish community, with the leadership board of Hillel stating that antisemitism is “not as widespread” as some believe and criticizing the “politicization of Jewish student experiences.” We will have to see which assessment reflects a more accurate reality of the situation on grounds…

    https://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2024/04/jewish-leadership-advisory-board-criticizes-politicization-of-jewish-student-experiences

  7. Centrist89 Avatar
    Centrist89

    “He Wrote a Definition of Antisemitism; Now He Says It’s Being Weaponized” – https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/he-wrote-a-definition-of-antisemitism-now-he-says-its-being-weaponized/

    Kenneth Stern, head of the Bard Center for the Study of Hate, who drafted the IHRA’s antisemitism definition, is now warning that it’s being used to stifle free speech.

    “If everything’s antisemitism, then nothing is antisemitism,” which is dangerous, because there’s a real antisemitism problem (we saw that at UVA in 2017). Interestingly, far right supporters of Israel and even Netanyahu himself have spread antisemitic conspiracies about George Soros.

  8. Patriot1776 Avatar
    Patriot1776

    Oh poor child! How pathetic. “People disagree with my nationalist beliefs about a foreign country so now I’m suing!”

    Part of learning involves considering perspectives that might challenge your worldview or make you uncomfortable. But I’m sure our conservative friends will rally around this snowflake…

  9. Lefty665 Avatar
    Lefty665

    Since his experience at UVa is so awful and traumatizing perhaps we should start a Go Fund Me page to buy the poor dear a ticket back to Israel.

    Does his status as a student at UVa get him a deferral from being drafted into the IDF, or is he perhaps already recruited and working for Mossad like Jonathan Pollard?

    Is tying a flag around his neck and draping it down his back as reported desecrating the Israeli flag as it would be the American flag?

    1. Turbocohen Avatar
      Turbocohen

      He already served. You democrats speak with forked tongue. Please continue, its a presidential election year ya know..

      1. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        Served how? By filing the lawsuit or spying for Israel like Pollard or dodging the draft or desecrating the flag? The reports say he is a first year student who left his family in Israel to study at UVA.

        Can we count on you to contribute to help defray the cost of a ticket to reunite him with his family?

        I do favor democracy, but I’m not a Dem as you have mistakenly slurred me several times now. It is an election year and we’re likely to get either dementia or pathological narcissism. You apparently have chosen your poison.

      2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Lefty is not a Democrat. But thank you for confirming that this is really just a cynically political piece.

  10. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    Interesting…3 new commenters, bravely anonymous.
    Does UVA pay them or does SJP or some other Leftist NGO that should lose its tax exemption?
    Hey, where’s the DEI “inclusion” bit?
    Oh, you didn’t really mean it?
    Yeah, all people with a brain know that – just another version of Commie lies…from the Deceiver…
    First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people…
    Cue Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes – Wake Up Everybody…

    1. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
      James Wyatt Whitehead

      I’m with you on the anonymous posters. What a bunch of cowards. These are the same people I see driving down the road as a single occupant wearing a covid mask.

    2. Eric the half a troll Avatar
      Eric the half a troll

      I see JAB is softening up the crowd already… September is just around the corner, Walt…!

      1. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        What is coming in September, Troll?
        Another September 11 attack?

        1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
          Eric the half a troll

          Only the shadow knows, Walt…

  11. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “Results from the investigation have yet to be made public”

    There seems to be no there… there… but nice innuendo argument, JAB. Class act!

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      per MO these days. Back in the day, BR/Bacon was NOT a culture war machine nor used such tactics. It was more about Virginia and how govt and institutions “worked”

      It’s ain’t the same BR it started out as IMO.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        He is simply laying the groundwork for the upcoming takeover of the BoV in September. Seems like TJC has been working toward that for quite sometime. Look for them to use the circular argument of “…as previously documented by TJC…” as justification for their actions even though they actually documented nothing of what they claim. You see a precursor of it above when they state: “The lawsuit consolidates a vast body of material about antisemitism at UVA, much of which will be familiar to Bacon’s Rebellion readers…”

        I would love to be a fly on the wall when/if discovery takes place for this one. Will the new BoV demand a settlement that would appear to validate the claims made? We, of course, will never know because all discussions by the new BoV will be behind closed doors.

        1. walter smith Avatar
          walter smith

          You mean like the current ones?
          Grow up

          1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Of course, by definition lawsuits are discussed in closed session and not subject to FOIA. We will never know what the connection might be between the plaintiffs and those aligned with the new BoV which will be deciding whether to mount a strong legal defense or not… will we…

          2. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Nor do you know anything currently going on. That’s called closed session.
            The problem with you Leftists is you project like IMax. You attribute to people who disagree with you all the dirty tricks you already do. Again. Grow up. The BOV composition will change …be terrified…we (the good Marxist people) aren’t in control anymore! Dark Ages are coming!
            No, in a sane world, the one we used to have, no one cared. You guys strayed from education and went to Marxist indoctrination and are surprised people might object?
            You will too one day when you are in the gulag, fully of no more use to the tyrants.

          3. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            Those old red herrings again. We see what you are doing and that makes you strike out and obfuscate. Grow up indeed…

          4. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            I see no substantive response.
            Are all the colleges being sued a “conspiracy theory?”
            Or you approve of Jew hate?
            Or it isn’t Jew hate, it’s anti-Zionism, which is a bait and switch for Jew hate?
            Curious minds want to know.
            And you are way too fixated on BOV appointments…
            Been the norm forever, until one party decided to make education political.

          5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            There is no onus to respond to red herrings. In fact, the only response necessary is to call them out as red herrings.

            “…until one party decided to make education political…”

            Bert and the shadow board are the ones politicizing education. Have you not actually been reading the TJC propaganda here and elsewhere? Stop projecting.

          6. Eric the half a troll Avatar
            Eric the half a troll

            There is no onus to respond to red herrings. In fact, the only response necessary is to call them out as red herrings.

            “…until one party decided to make education political…”

            Bert and the shadow board are the ones politicizing education. Have you not actually been reading the TJC propaganda here and elsewhere? Stop projecting.

  12. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “SJP at UVA and its principals have created and act on behalf of and in concert with dozens of similar student organizations that appear to be mere alter egos or aliases for SJP at UVA and are simply additional facsimiles of SJP at UVA,”

    Reading through the lawsuit, I am struck by how often the use the term “appear to be” particularly when claiming supposed coordination with Hamas. Somebody “appears to be” worried about a defamation suit, maybe…

    1. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      re:: “appears to be”… “legalese”? 😉

      Why does Bacon think this is worth posting on BR?

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        Laying groundwork… see comment below…

  13. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    For the benefit of Troll and the other Leftist commenters…
    This is all part of a massive conspiracy, all across the nation, to pull down higher education and bring America into the Dark Ages…women barefoot and pregnant!

    Or it could just be true….
    https://reason.com/volokh/2024/05/22/a-list-with-links-of-antisemitism-lawsuits-filed-against-american-universities/

    This libertarian oriented professor thinks the disparate treatment argument is pretty strong. It is. It is observed at UVA, and many others.

    In a world where there was honor and truth, lawsuits wouldn’t be necessary. They are currently just another layer of protection for the Marxists in charge. Lawsuits are expensive and personally draining. While the defendants get defended at taxpayer expense. And a risk for the lawyers as the Marxists are largely in charge in all of the credentialing organizations, like State Bars and Medical Boards. And don’t forget the social media mob. This takes bravery.

  14. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    For the benefit of Troll and the other Leftist commenters…
    This is all part of a massive conspiracy, all across the nation, to pull down higher education and bring America into the Dark Ages…women barefoot and pregnant!

    Or it could just be true….
    https://reason.com/volokh/2024/05/22/a-list-with-links-of-antisemitism-lawsuits-filed-against-american-universities/

    This libertarian oriented professor thinks the disparate treatment argument is pretty strong. It is. It is observed at UVA, and many others.

    In a world where there was honor and truth, lawsuits wouldn’t be necessary. They are currently just another layer of protection for the Marxists in charge. Lawsuits are expensive and personally draining. While the defendants get defended at taxpayer expense. And a risk for the lawyers as the Marxists are largely in charge in all of the credentialing organizations, like State Bars and Medical Boards. And don’t forget the social media mob. This takes bravery.

  15. I read a lot of snark, blather and insinuation of motives in the comments. Interestingly, none of the comments address the argument highlighted in the headline that “pro-Palestinian” groups at UVA function as proxies for Hamas

    1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
      James C. Sherlock

      Discontinue allowing screen names and the trolls will disappear

      1. Lefty665 Avatar
        Lefty665

        Glad to see your post, been worried about ‘ya.

      2. LarrytheG Avatar
        LarrytheG

        Given the number of personal attacks here , no way…………

    2. LarrytheG Avatar
      LarrytheG

      because it’s probably not the truth? and it’s the same argument used by Conservatives in general against most groups that support the Palestinian people and not Hamas?

      You can support people and not terrorists… you know? Like we did the Afghanistan people instead of calling them all Taliban?

    3. Lefty665 Avatar
      Lefty665

      Seems to some of us that the ICC has it about right, going after both Israeli and Hamas leaders for war crimes.

      On supporting Palestinians the recognition that Israel has murdered 30 times as many Palestinians as Hamas murdered Israelis is paramount. Scale matters. That Israel has done that with US supplied weapons makes us accessories to crimes against humanity.

      The killing needs to stop. At this stage that means restraining Israel. After almost 8 months of carnage Israel has not been able to defeat Hamas, a ragtag bunch of troglodytes armed with AKs and RPGs. How many more Palestinian women and children is Israel prepared to kill to not defeat Hamas? A negotiated settlement is in everyone’s best interests. That means Israel negotiating with Hamas and Hamas negotiating with Israel.

      1. CJBova Avatar

        Believing Hamas will negotiate in good faith is a daydream. War involves killing. It is not murder no matter how many times you say it. Attacking a dance — that was murder. Invading homes and killing families—that was murder.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar
          Lefty665

          Believing that Israel will negotiate in good faith is a daydream too. The IDF attacking Israelis fleeing the dance was murder by friendly fire as was tanks attacking homes and murdering Israelis held by Hamas to get at Hamas. Killing civilians is murder, no matter how many times you deny it. Killing combatants is not.

          The killing needs to stop and the talking start.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar
          LarrytheG

          Not about Hamas negotiating in good faith is not the issue. It would be like saying if the Taliban (or Viet Cong or any terrorist), don’t negotiate in good faith, it’s okay to kill civilians the Taliban (or other terrorists) are hiding behind.

          If we are to be “better” than the terrorists, we have to not do what they do.

          1. CJBova Avatar

            Unlike Hamas,IDF does not aim at civilians. Unless they are wiped out, Hamas has to agree to stop the war. So expecting Israel to stop fighting unilaterally is to ask them to let their people die. Do innocents die in war? Yes but not by Israel’s intention.

          2. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            For an army that does not aim at civilians, the IDF has certainly done an amazing job of killing them. Some 25,000 or more of the Palestinian dead are women and children. Noncombatants by any definition. If not by intent murder on that scale must be incompetence.

            Does dropping 2,000 pound bombs that level entire city blocks count as “unintentionally” murdering all who live there, or simply oops?

          3. Turbocohen Avatar
            Turbocohen

            What is the source of that number, Hamas?

          4. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Denial is worse than ignorance. Ignorance is remedial through education.

          5. Lefty665 Avatar
            Lefty665

            Denial is worse than ignorance. Ignorance is remedial through education.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            IDF does NOT do what the US does though which is to explicitly avoid civilian casualties by precise targeting of bad guys.

            For instance, the USA does not carpet bomb or use bunker busters where there are civilian populations.

            The US does not permanently occupy other countries, refuse them sovereign state status, or set up permanent “settler” enclaves that requires continued occupation by their military.

            It is not “pro-Hamas” to state the simple facts of what Israel is doing. Israel is actually generating Hamas type ideology with their own actions.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            IDF does NOT do what the US does though which is to explicitly avoid civilian casualties by precise targeting of bad guys.

            For instance, the USA does not carpet bomb or use bunker busters where there are civilian populations.

            The US does not permanently occupy other countries, refuse them sovereign state status, or set up permanent “settler” enclaves that requires continued occupation by their military.

            It is not “pro-Hamas” to state the simple facts of what Israel is doing. Israel is actually generating Hamas type ideology with their own actions.

          8. CJBova Avatar

            Exactly how would you identify who is in underground tunnels, hiding in hospitals, actually running military operations in hospitals? The situation is not the same in the Middle East and inUS. And out of context comments like yours are definitely pro-Hamas. Especial I y using Hamas invented civilian casualty numbers that have no verification. Have to wonder how many of your 31,822 comments have been based on fact.

          9. LarrytheG Avatar
            LarrytheG

            The same way the US does when dealing with the Taliban and other terrorists.

            You don’t get to kill civilians because getting the terrorists is “hard”.

            It’s not “out of context” or “pro-hamas” to recognize the simple truth.

            comments are opinions Carol. They can be backed up with references and facts. And if someone has been a member of BR for many years, what does that mean in terms of comments exactly?

            and the moderator herself is engaging in a personal attack? No wonder moderation seems suspect at times?

  16. William O'Keefe Avatar
    William O’Keefe

    This issue is too serious for snarky and ill informed comments. The lawsuit will separate fact from rhetoric. In the meantime, groups who claim to seeking justice for Palestinians should be asked about allegations that they front for Hamas which has been designated as a terrorist organization. If the allegation can be proven those organizations have no place at UVA.
    Let organizations at UVA set out their solutions for the conflict that has been taking place since the state of Israel was formed. That would certainly be more informative than what has taken place in the name of academic freedom and debate.

    1. Turbocohen Avatar
      Turbocohen

      So lemme get this straight. Democrats may have no place at UVA? ALL of these front groups are presidential election year Democrat activist groups. ALL.

      1. William O'Keefe Avatar
        William O’Keefe

        You certainly are reading a lot into my comments. I wonder why?

Leave a Reply