Is It Time to Say Goodbye to Virginia Coal Exports??

Norfolk Southern’s coal loading terminal at Lambert’s Point in Norfolk

By Peter Galuszka

Oilprice.com, a petroleum trade newsletter, has a story that could spell more bad news for the faltering Virginia coal industry.

For many years, the most valuable product from Virginia’s coal fields was coking or metallurgical coal that is exported to other countries for use in steel making.

China has been a crucial buyer of Virginia coal but recent pronouncements from the Communist Party leadership indicate that coal is on its way out after leader Xi Jinping outlined a far-reaching program that set a peak of carbon emissions in 2030 followed by net zero policy by 2060.

Correspondingly, steel companies are also setting net zero carbon goals including the world’s biggest steel makers ArcelorMittal of Europe, Baowu Steel of China and Nippon Steel of Japan.

The moves could erase Virginia’s coal experts because the demand for the steam coal used to generate electricity has already been undercut by the remarkable growth of renewable energy sources like solar and wind in China and India. As they expand, their costs go down – below those of coal.

Coking coal exports from Hampton Roads could get slammed as global steelmakers experiment with new manufacturing processes.

According to OilPrice.com, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology is looking at using steel currents to heat iron ore to make steel. Europeans are using hydrogen furnaces. Brazilians are experimenting with blochar which comes from agricultural waste. Some seventy percent of the world’s steel still is manufacturing the old fashioned way that dates to the 18th Century and uses coking coal. That seems about to change.

According to Foreign Policy magazine, Xi Jinping’s announcement of China’s carbon cutting goals last September is a huge step. “Did Xi Just Save the World/” read the headline on the story, which did not get much play in the media.

At the moment, China is the world’s largest carbon emitter and contributed to 28 percent of the globe’s carbon pollution. That’s more than the carbon emissions from the US. the European and India combined, Foreign Policy says.

Xi’s new stance badly undercuts arguments of climate change deniers (including a number on this blog) that it is pointless for Virginia and the U.S. to push carbon cuts and promote renewable energy sources. They say that any good that comes from those plans is pointless since China and India will keep pumping out carbon.

That thinking is very much yesterday’s and it has big implications for Virginia whose coal production peaked in 1990 and has been going down steadily ever since. For about a century trainloads of coal have chugged across the state to docks like Lambert’s Point, Norfolk Southern’s export facility in Hampton Roads that is the world’s biggest.

The momentum for renewables will grow, forced by new technology and more progressive attitudes by technology leaders like Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook and Jeff Bezos of Amazon that are expanding their footprint in Virginia. They want their facilities to use electricity that is carbon-free and that has resulted in big changes in thinking by electric utilities like Dominion.


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Comments

125 responses to “Is It Time to Say Goodbye to Virginia Coal Exports??”

  1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Well, on the personal side, the amount of coal dust that swept in winds from Newport News Point and landed on my gleaming white decks has dropped dramatically over the years. Crap was impossible to get out of the slip-check without a good pressure washer.

    Can’t imagine why there isn’t more lung problems downwind from Lambert’s and Newport News.

  2. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Well, on the personal side, the amount of coal dust that swept in winds from Newport News Point and landed on my gleaming white decks has dropped dramatically over the years. Crap was impossible to get out of the slip-check without a good pressure washer.

    Can’t imagine why there isn’t more lung problems downwind from Lambert’s and Newport News.

  3. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    Little known fact. Much of the Sparrows Point peninsula was built by Bethlehem Steel pushing coal slag into the Bay. Still struggling with the environmental fallout today. Coal can’t die soon enough.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar

      “Eric the Half a Troll | February 10, 2021 at 8:02 am | Log in to Reply
      Little known fact. Much of the Sparrows Point peninsula was built by Bethlehem Steel pushing coal slag into the Bay. Still struggling with the environmental fallout today. Coal can’t die soon enough.”

      Interesting statement, care to back it up with facts?

      Oh and “coal slag” is the byproduct of power plants, it’s also what shingles are made out of. Coke is the byproduct of steel making.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar

          Perhaps you could provide a document that isn’t from 1998 and validates his claim that Sparrow’s Point peninsula was created using coal slag.

          I don’t suppose you noticed in your supplied document that the word “slag” was missing and the word “coke” was there.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Ah! Slag. You weren’t clear. You appeared to be objecting to the pollution and ongoing problems.

            But, it’s loaded with slag.

            See page “Site Geology…”

            https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-02/documents/sparrowspoint_tradepointatlantic_sb.pdf

          2. Matt Adams Avatar

            I mentioned “coal slag” in my initial comment.

            Your document also didn’t validate the following claim:

            “Little known fact. Much of the Sparrows Point peninsula was built by Bethlehem Steel pushing coal slag into the Bay.”

            Furthermore, “slag” is referenced twice in your 2017 document. Beyond that it reads just like the clean up of any other site with major manufacture or industrial production since the turn of the century.

            These are byproducts of a time when we were less concerned about the side-effects of our actions. Is that okay? No, it’s not but we also can’t judge those practices using what we know now.

            Without that steel mill we wouldn’t have the GW bridge nor the Golden Gate.

          3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            But it confirms the fill was mostly iron- and steel-making slag. Of course that leaves open the option of coal slag from the burners or metal slags from the pot.

            Nevertheless, slag.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Nancy_Naive | February 10, 2021 at 12:31 pm |
            But it confirms the fill was mostly iron- and steel-making slag. Of course that leaves open the option of coal slag from the burners or metal slags from the pot.

            Nevertheless, slag.”

            It did not.

            And I quote:

            ” The unconsolidated sediments include (from youngest corresponding to surficial to oldest) recent fill deposits
            consisting primarily of iron- and steel-making slag;”

            “Unconfined groundwater exists within the shallow aquifer comprised of the slag fill
            material, and intermediate and deeper aquifers exist within the Talbot and Patapsco”

            The two instances of slag being referenced in your document.

            The claim was that the peninsula was made from the coal slag, which is demonstrably false by your own document

          5. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
            Eric the Half a Troll

            “Most of the Coke Point Peninsula consists of slag fill material approximately 30 feet (ft) thick.
            The underlying native geological formations include the Talbot Formation (primarily soft marine
            silt and sand with bivalve shells)”

            You will have to google the citation (EA Workplan) as every time I post a link these days, my post never makes it on the board.

            Your point on whether and how much of the slag is coal waste vs. steel is well taken.

          6. Matt Adams Avatar

            So Eric, what you saying is that you made up a claim and can’t seem to back it up.

            ““Most of the Coke Point Peninsula consists of slag fill material approximately 30 feet (ft) thick.
            The underlying native geological formations include the Talbot Formation (primarily soft marine
            silt and sand with bivalve shells)””

            “Little known fact. Much of the Sparrows Point peninsula was built by Bethlehem Steel pushing coal slag into the Bay.”

            The Slag exists, Bethlehem steel didn’t create the the peninsula using coal slag. Beyond that Steel has been produced on the land since 1882 prior to Bethlehem Steel purchasing it.

          7. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
            Eric the Half a Troll

            Not sure what you can’t comprehend here. Slag did not exist there until it was produced and dumped there – it is specifically identified as “fill”. Not sure why you are having such a hard time with the concept.

            I’ve drilled at the site, I know. The Coke Peninsula was built from slag.

  4. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
    Eric the Half a Troll

    Little known fact. Much of the Sparrows Point peninsula was built by Bethlehem Steel pushing coal slag into the Bay. Still struggling with the environmental fallout today. Coal can’t die soon enough.

    1. Matt Adams Avatar

      “Eric the Half a Troll | February 10, 2021 at 8:02 am | Log in to Reply
      Little known fact. Much of the Sparrows Point peninsula was built by Bethlehem Steel pushing coal slag into the Bay. Still struggling with the environmental fallout today. Coal can’t die soon enough.”

      Interesting statement, care to back it up with facts?

      Oh and “coal slag” is the byproduct of power plants, it’s also what shingles are made out of. Coke is the byproduct of steel making.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar

          Perhaps you could provide a document that isn’t from 1998 and validates his claim that Sparrow’s Point peninsula was created using coal slag.

          I don’t suppose you noticed in your supplied document that the word “slag” was missing and the word “coke” was there.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Ah! Slag. You weren’t clear. You appeared to be objecting to the pollution and ongoing problems.

            But, it’s loaded with slag.

            See page “Site Geology…”

            https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-02/documents/sparrowspoint_tradepointatlantic_sb.pdf

          2. Matt Adams Avatar

            I mentioned “coal slag” in my initial comment.

            Your document also didn’t validate the following claim:

            “Little known fact. Much of the Sparrows Point peninsula was built by Bethlehem Steel pushing coal slag into the Bay.”

            Furthermore, “slag” is referenced twice in your 2017 document. Beyond that it reads just like the clean up of any other site with major manufacture or industrial production since the turn of the century.

            These are byproducts of a time when we were less concerned about the side-effects of our actions. Is that okay? No, it’s not but we also can’t judge those practices using what we know now.

            Without that steel mill we wouldn’t have the GW bridge nor the Golden Gate.

          3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            But it confirms the fill was mostly iron- and steel-making slag. Of course that leaves open the option of coal slag from the burners or metal slags from the pot.

            Nevertheless, slag.

          4. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Nancy_Naive | February 10, 2021 at 12:31 pm |
            But it confirms the fill was mostly iron- and steel-making slag. Of course that leaves open the option of coal slag from the burners or metal slags from the pot.

            Nevertheless, slag.”

            It did not.

            And I quote:

            ” The unconsolidated sediments include (from youngest corresponding to surficial to oldest) recent fill deposits
            consisting primarily of iron- and steel-making slag;”

            “Unconfined groundwater exists within the shallow aquifer comprised of the slag fill
            material, and intermediate and deeper aquifers exist within the Talbot and Patapsco”

            The two instances of slag being referenced in your document.

            The claim was that the peninsula was made from the coal slag, which is demonstrably false by your own document

          5. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
            Eric the Half a Troll

            “Most of the Coke Point Peninsula consists of slag fill material approximately 30 feet (ft) thick.
            The underlying native geological formations include the Talbot Formation (primarily soft marine
            silt and sand with bivalve shells)”

            You will have to google the citation (EA Workplan) as every time I post a link these days, my post never makes it on the board.

            Your point on whether and how much of the slag is coal waste vs. steel is well taken.

          6. Matt Adams Avatar

            So Eric, what you saying is that you made up a claim and can’t seem to back it up.

            “”Most of the Coke Point Peninsula consists of slag fill material approximately 30 feet (ft) thick.
            The underlying native geological formations include the Talbot Formation (primarily soft marine
            silt and sand with bivalve shells)””

            “Little known fact. Much of the Sparrows Point peninsula was built by Bethlehem Steel pushing coal slag into the Bay.”

            The Slag exists, Bethlehem steel didn’t create the the peninsula using coal slag. Beyond that Steel has been produced on the land since 1882 prior to Bethlehem Steel purchasing it.

          7. Eric the Half a Troll Avatar
            Eric the Half a Troll

            Not sure what you can’t comprehend here. Slag did not exist there until it was produced and dumped there – it is specifically identified as “fill”. Not sure why you are having such a hard time with the concept.

            I’ve drilled at the site, I know. The Coke Peninsula was built from slag.

  5. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

  6. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

  7. The momentum for renewables will grow, forced by new technology and more progressive attitudes by technology leaders

    It will grow through heavy taxation. See Germany , Spain etc.
    BTW: Germany’s green savior machine is Putins gas pipe. NordStream 2.

  8. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
    Anonymous_Bosch

    Well if China’s environmental policy is anything like their economic policy, then yes, every fool will believe that Xi is saving the world. I mean, it’s one thing to manipulate the value of your currency but the commies actually care about the environment.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Xi is just saying what the West wants him to say, but is actually building new coal generation all over China and the rest of the world. That said, if there is a viable alternative for steel production, fine with me. Never been a fan of coal.

      Although one historical point: But for CSX shipping coal out of Newport News, it never would have occurred to Collis P. Huntington to build a shipyard there. Then maybe the three carriers that won Midway would never have been built….?

      1. Matt Adams Avatar

        Without Sparrow Point (Eric bemoaned above) the GW bridge nor the Golden Gate would be in existence.

        There wouldn’t be very much railroad if it weren’t for coal, no rail to run on. There goes mass transit.

  9. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
    Anonymous_Bosch

    Well if China’s environmental policy is anything like their economic policy, then yes, every fool will believe that Xi is saving the world. I mean, it’s one thing to manipulate the value of your currency but the commies actually care about the environment.

    1. Steve Haner Avatar
      Steve Haner

      Xi is just saying what the West wants him to say, but is actually building new coal generation all over China and the rest of the world. That said, if there is a viable alternative for steel production, fine with me. Never been a fan of coal.

      Although one historical point: But for CSX shipping coal out of Newport News, it never would have occurred to Collis P. Huntington to build a shipyard there. Then maybe the three carriers that won Midway would never have been built….?

      1. Matt Adams Avatar

        Without Sparrow Point (Eric bemoaned above) the GW bridge nor the Golden Gate would be in existence.

        There wouldn’t be very much railroad if it weren’t for coal, no rail to run on. There goes mass transit.

  10. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    I don’t believe Xi and China can be trusted. They will continue the path of worst polluters in the world. Current occupant in DC is a weak leader that will continue to permit China’s hegemony to expand.
    https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants

    1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
      Anonymous_Bosch

      Xi is smart enough to know that the media needs an environmental scapegoat, and now that Orangemanbad is gone…

    2. James,

      Are you still driving for UPS? Be careful. Maybe there is more to the story, but this sounds crazy.

      “23-year-old UPS driver killed in downtown Raleigh shooting, police say”

      https://www.wavy.com/news/north-carolina/23-year-old-ups-driver-killed-in-downtown-raleigh-shooting-police-say/

  11. James Wyatt Whitehead V Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead V

    I don’t believe Xi and China can be trusted. They will continue the path of worst polluters in the world. Current occupant in DC is a weak leader that will continue to permit China’s hegemony to expand.
    https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants

    1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
      Anonymous_Bosch

      Xi is smart enough to know that the media needs an environmental scapegoat, and now that Orangemanbad is gone…

    2. James,

      Are you still driving for UPS? Be careful. Maybe there is more to the story, but this sounds crazy.

      “23-year-old UPS driver killed in downtown Raleigh shooting, police say”

      https://www.wavy.com/news/north-carolina/23-year-old-ups-driver-killed-in-downtown-raleigh-shooting-police-say/

  12. Metallurgical grade coal has special uses to make steel and is not really considered a climate change issue. Presumably met-coal will be harder to find in the world, so it will depend if Virginia’s cost of production is economical compared to other sources. Does not really sound like anything China is saying will have impact for many years.

    I could say electric cars are doomed, because H2 fuel cell technology will blow it off the map. The liberal’s approach to that is to ban H2 fuel cell cars in America. So where are we on future predictions? In America, progressive liberals will be in charge of deciding which industry to ban and which are politically correct?

    1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
      Anonymous_Bosch

      Don’t be so cynical, the liberals are only “following the science”.

  13. Metallurgical grade coal has special uses to make steel and is not really considered a climate change issue. Presumably met-coal will be harder to find in the world, so it will depend if Virginia’s cost of production is economical compared to other sources. Does not really sound like anything China is saying will have impact for many years.

    I could say electric cars are doomed, because H2 fuel cell technology will blow it off the map. The liberal’s approach to that is to ban H2 fuel cell cars in America. So where are we on future predictions? In America, progressive liberals will be in charge of deciding which industry to ban and which are politically correct?

    1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
      Anonymous_Bosch

      Don’t be so cynical, the liberals are only “following the science”.

  14. sherlockj Avatar

    Peter, anytime you hang your hat on “leader Xi Jinping outlined a far-reaching program”, the rest is going to be discounted.

    Hard to imagine why you would do that since the rest of your column doesn’t require it.

    As for “Xi’s new stance badly undercuts” arguments of climate change deniers (including a number on this blog) that it is pointless for Virginia and the U.S. to push carbon cuts and promote renewable energy sources”. That is a very large straw man that requires some unpacking.

    Do you know anyone on here who is a climate change denier? If so identify him or her.

    Do you know anyone on here that has written that it is pointless for the U.S. to push carbon cuts? Identify him or her.

    You know people on here, and I am one of them, that recommend that the left not get out in front with policy of the actual performance of “green” technology. It has done so before with Obama/Biden and is in the process of doing it again. State of the practice technology that is as reliable and more efficient than carbon sources will displace them soon enough. Jumping ahead of that technology risks bringing the economy into depression. If you think Xi is stupid enough to do that you misjudge him.

    Some also may have actually challenged how “green” for example are solar panels when their entire life cycle from creation to discard is considered.

    But those are legitimate discussions that do not start with “pointless”.

    As for “Xi’s new stance” having anything to do with U.S. policy, please explain that to readers.

  15. sherlockj Avatar

    Peter, anytime you hang your hat on “leader Xi Jinping outlined a far-reaching program”, the rest is going to be discounted.

    Hard to imagine why you would do that since the rest of your column doesn’t require it.

    As for “Xi’s new stance badly undercuts” arguments of climate change deniers (including a number on this blog) that it is pointless for Virginia and the U.S. to push carbon cuts and promote renewable energy sources”. That is a very large straw man that requires some unpacking.

    Do you know anyone on here who is a climate change denier? If so identify him or her.

    Do you know anyone on here that has written that it is pointless for the U.S. to push carbon cuts? Identify him or her.

    You know people on here, and I am one of them, that recommend that the left not get out in front with policy of the actual performance of “green” technology. It has done so before with Obama/Biden and is in the process of doing it again. State of the practice technology that is as reliable and more efficient than carbon sources will displace them soon enough. Jumping ahead of that technology risks bringing the economy into depression. If you think Xi is stupid enough to do that you misjudge him.

    Some also may have actually challenged how “green” for example are solar panels when their entire life cycle from creation to discard is considered.

    But those are legitimate discussions that do not start with “pointless”.

    As for “Xi’s new stance” having anything to do with U.S. policy, please explain that to readers.

  16. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
    Anonymous_Bosch

    Xi’s new plan = Even the best laid 5 year plans of mice and men…

  17. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
    Anonymous_Bosch

    Xi’s new plan = Even the best laid 5 year plans of mice and men…

  18. I think Europe is interesting example.

    They have a new program called REACH which speaks to modernizing European industry to a new (and perhaps unobtainable) level of zero toxicity of all products. Their logic is that this will put Europe’s industry in a leadership position for the future.

    Our American liberal approach is condemn industry and destroy it. Proclaim those Americans involved are Deplorables. The European approach seems more understanding of the need to make things, but to strive for gradual improvement.

    Europeans are expecting their central government (somewhat humorously) to come up with lofty goals (eg; clean diesel) that are not really achievable, but there is a flexibility to try for those things and change the goals if they are too idealistic and impossible. We nave no flexibility, liberals want to make mandates and hold to it no matter what.

  19. I think Europe is interesting example.

    They have a new program called REACH which speaks to modernizing European industry to a new (and perhaps unobtainable) level of zero toxicity of all products. Their logic is that this will put Europe’s industry in a leadership position for the future.

    Our American liberal approach is condemn industry and destroy it. Proclaim those Americans involved are Deplorables. The European approach seems more understanding of the need to make things, but to strive for gradual improvement.

    Europeans are expecting their central government (somewhat humorously) to come up with lofty goals (eg; clean diesel) that are not really achievable, but there is a flexibility to try for those things and change the goals if they are too idealistic and impossible. We nave no flexibility, liberals want to make mandates and hold to it no matter what.

  20. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Xi? Whatever happened to the Reagan Republicans’s “Trust but Verify”?

    Oh yeah, maybe it went out the window when Bush gazed dreamily into Putin’s eyes?

    1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
      Anonymous_Bosch

      “Tell Vladimir that I can be more flexible after the election. ”
      B. Hussein Obama, 2012

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        And yet, with all that flexibility, Obama still deployed the missiles in Poland in 2016.

        But hey, Republicans hate Xi, despised Chavez and Castro, but loooove Putin… White Privilege?

        1. Matt Adams Avatar

          FPOTUS Obama did a lot of things, but deploying missiles to Poland in 2016 wasn’t one of them.

          https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-shield-timeline/after-long-wait-u-s-to-unveil-european-missile-shield-idUSKCN0Y217P

          Oh and the Polish location that was supposed to come online in 2018 didn’t until 2020.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Romania! Romania! Hope you never grow old. But then, you knew it was Romania.

            The reason given for Poland is Iran, which is funny since the long-range missile Iran has can barely cross the Black Sea. Given the available info on the Iranian missiles and those scheduled for Poland, to intercept the Iranian missile from the site in Poland, the defensive missile would have to be launched first.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Nancy_Naive | February 10, 2021 at 12:00 pm |
            Romania! Romania! Hope you never grow old. But then, you knew it was Romania.

            The reason given for Poland is Iran, which is funny since the long-range missile Iran has can barely cross the Black Sea. Given the available info on the Iranian missiles and those scheduled for Poland, to intercept the Iranian missile from the site in Poland, the defensive missile would have to be launched first.”

            What I know is that FPOTUS Obama made a hot mic comment about missiles in Poland. That subsequently didn’t occur and Poland went it alone.

            Raytheon sold Patriot missiles to Poland in 2018.

          3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Patriots have improved, but I believe their record of confirmed kills is still 2 Blue to 1 Red.

            BTW, Raytheon would sell Patriots to everyone if they could. They’d sell their mothers to Putin.

        2. FYI – Fidel Castro was white.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            WASP?

          2. White is white as far as the government is concerned – and asking about religion is a big no-no.

        3. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
          Anonymous_Bosch

          Of course, and why not? What good is a privilege if one doesn’t exercise it?

  21. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Xi? Whatever happened to the Reagan Republicans’s “Trust but Verify”?

    Oh yeah, maybe it went out the window when Bush gazed dreamily into Putin’s eyes?

    1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
      Anonymous_Bosch

      “Tell Vladimir that I can be more flexible after the election. ”
      B. Hussein Obama, 2012

      1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
        Nancy_Naive

        And yet, with all that flexibility, Obama still deployed the missiles in Poland in 2016.

        But hey, Republicans hate Xi, despised Chavez and Castro, but loooove Putin… White Privilege?

        1. Anonymous_Bosch Avatar
          Anonymous_Bosch

          Of course, and why not? What good is a privilege if one doesn’t exercise it?

        2. Matt Adams Avatar

          FPOTUS Obama did a lot of things, but deploying missiles to Poland in 2016 wasn’t one of them.

          https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-shield-timeline/after-long-wait-u-s-to-unveil-european-missile-shield-idUSKCN0Y217P

          Oh and the Polish location that was supposed to come online in 2018 didn’t until 2020.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Romania! Romania! Hope you never grow old. But then, you knew it was Romania.

            The reason given for Poland is Iran, which is funny since the long-range missile Iran has can barely cross the Black Sea. Given the available info on the Iranian missiles and those scheduled for Poland, to intercept the Iranian missile from the site in Poland, the defensive missile would have to be launched first.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar

            “Nancy_Naive | February 10, 2021 at 12:00 pm |
            Romania! Romania! Hope you never grow old. But then, you knew it was Romania.

            The reason given for Poland is Iran, which is funny since the long-range missile Iran has can barely cross the Black Sea. Given the available info on the Iranian missiles and those scheduled for Poland, to intercept the Iranian missile from the site in Poland, the defensive missile would have to be launched first.”

            What I know is that FPOTUS Obama made a hot mic comment about missiles in Poland. That subsequently didn’t occur and Poland went it alone.

            Raytheon sold Patriot missiles to Poland in 2018.

          3. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            Patriots have improved, but I believe their record of confirmed kills is still 2 Blue to 1 Red.

            BTW, Raytheon would sell Patriots to everyone if they could. They’d sell their mothers to Putin.

        3. FYI – Fidel Castro was white.

          1. Nancy_Naive Avatar
            Nancy_Naive

            WASP?

          2. White is white as far as the government is concerned – and asking about religion is a big no-no.

  22. Speaking of China’s coal policy… “Maverick Miner” devotes a chapter to Morgan Massey’s foray into Chinese coal mining. Steve Zou, Morgan’s Chinese partner who helped launch the Daning mine — one of the most most profitable mines in coal-mining history — has formed a new company, Fenwei, that has developed AI to increase the efficiency of coke production. The underlying assumption of the business enterprise is that the conversion of metallurgical coal to coke for use in steel making will continue for a long time. But, then, he formed his company a year or two ago. Who knows if Xi’s recent pronouncement will change Fenwei’s business calculus.

  23. Speaking of China’s coal policy… “Maverick Miner” devotes a chapter to Morgan Massey’s foray into Chinese coal mining. Steve Zou, Morgan’s Chinese partner who helped launch the Daning mine — one of the most most profitable mines in coal-mining history — has formed a new company, Fenwei, that has developed AI to increase the efficiency of coke production. The underlying assumption of the business enterprise is that the conversion of metallurgical coal to coke for use in steel making will continue for a long time. But, then, he formed his company a year or two ago. Who knows if Xi’s recent pronouncement will change Fenwei’s business calculus.

  24. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Capt. Jim,
    I am hardly a Xi fan. I was surprised to stumble across the Foreign Policy article this morning. If you have an argument, why not quote them.
    I am no China expert, but I did go to China, Mongolia and Japan to research my coal book. There are middle and top managers in China who do understand the threat of carbon.
    As for the Chinese and Indians building lots of coal plants, I really don’t need to be educated. Here’s an article I did for The New York Times a decade ago:

    https://www.cnbc.com/id/49797641

  25. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    Capt. Jim,
    I am hardly a Xi fan. I was surprised to stumble across the Foreign Policy article this morning. If you have an argument, why not quote them.
    I am no China expert, but I did go to China, Mongolia and Japan to research my coal book. There are middle and top managers in China who do understand the threat of carbon.
    As for the Chinese and Indians building lots of coal plants, I really don’t need to be educated. Here’s an article I did for The New York Times a decade ago:

    https://www.cnbc.com/id/49797641

  26. djrippert Avatar

    Article 3 of the Virginia Way Constitution states, “Virginia government shall expend no funds contemplating the future nor enact any legislation based on economic fact.”

    Coal is dead. Get over it.

    “Virginia mines produced more than 45.9 million tons of coal in 1990, and by 2019, that annual figure fell to 12.4 million, according to federal data. As production fell, so did employment in the state’s mines, from about 10,662 workers to 2,576 over the same 30-year period.

    https://heraldcourier.com/news/local/already-under-pressure-virginia-s-coal-industry-sees-furloughs-and-idled-mines-amid-covid-19/article_53de0c22-956a-5edd-a886-b541e7689a95.html

    Peter is right, it’s time for Virginia to move on.

    1. “It’s time for Virginia to move on.”

      Virginia is moving on. Even SW Virginia is moving on. Everyone knows that coal’s days are numbered. You don’t have to tell the people of SW Virginia — it’s their jobs that are disappearing. They are desperately trying to find ways to diversify the economy. Their problem is that remote, mountainous regions are not places where most corporations want to invest. Isolation and terrain are big obstacles to development. Same problem in West Virginia. Same problem in eastern Kentucky. Same problem across Appalachia.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar

        It’s always very easy for people to say we need to do away with an industry when they don’t have skin in the game.

        There are a good number of jobs that depend on mining in this county and the byproducts of that mining. A good number of them are Union Jobs, that pay a good wage and provide good benefits.

        1. djrippert Avatar

          Mining does not equal coal mining in Virginia. The coal costs too much to mine in much of Appalachia. It’s an economic thing.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar

            “djrippert | February 10, 2021 at 12:48 pm | Reply
            Mining does not equal coal mining in Virginia. The coal costs too much to mine in much of Appalachia. It’s an economic thing.”

            It appears you aren’t aware of jobs that coexist because of coal mining in general.

        2. idiocracy Avatar

          That’s OK, they can all move to Northern Virginia and get IT jobs.

      2. djrippert Avatar

        2,576 people employed in Virginia’s mines. Out of 8.5 million Virginians. Did you cry the same tears for the employees of sliderule factories back when reverse polish notation calculators made their appearance?

        Detroit had a population of 1,849,568 in 1950. It was down to 713,777 60 years later. Between 2010 and 2019 the population declined another 6.1% to 670,031.

        Much of Appalachia was built on extractive industry. Just like much of Detroit was built on US dominance in onshore automaking.

        Things change.

        “Their problem is that remote, mountainous regions are not places where most corporations want to invest. Isolation and terrain are big obstacles to development.”

        Right. And the General Assembly can’t change remoteness, mountain ranges, isolation or terrain.

        Sometimes downsizing is the only viable plan.

        The forefathers of most residents of SW Virginia boarded rickety wooden ships and sailed across the Atlantic in search of better opportunities. Their descendants might have to move to areas of better opportunity too.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar

          “2,576 people employed in Virginia’s mines. Out of 8.5 million Virginians. Did you cry the same tears for the employees of sliderule factories back when reverse polis notation calculators made their appearance?”

          Clearly you do not know jobs that exist because of coal mining in general. Oh and I’ll be pedantic, slide rule is two words.

          One word, railroad. You know the entity you tried to discuss regarding Roanoke and fumbled it badly.

          1. djrippert Avatar

            You still want to bet where Norfolk Southern’s headquarters is located today? NS even sold their downtown tower in Norfolk this summer.

            Yes, there are other jobs that come from coal mining than just those in the mines. The problem is that the coal that is economical to mine in Virginia is running out. Virginia’s coal production and coal mining employment has been falling for decades. No doubt the subsidiary jobs that support the coal mining peter out as the coal disappears. It’s not the miners fault. It’s not Virginia’s fault. It’s not anybody’s fault. It just is what it is. Nevada is littered with ghost towns where there used to be silver mines.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar

            “You still want to bet where Norfolk Southern’s headquarters is located today? NS even sold their downtown tower in Norfolk this summer”

            Facts you only learned after you Googled it, following your previous f’ up of clamming it was Roanoke. I corrected you in stating their HQ was in Norfolk, so you can drop the blusters that you’re a tough guy. PS: they left because the taxes in this state suck.

            “Yes, there are other jobs that come from coal mining than just those in the mines. The problem is that the coal that is economical to mine in Virginia is running out. Virginia’s coal production and coal mining employment has been falling for decades. No doubt the subsidiary jobs that support the coal mining peter out as the coal disappears. It’s not the miners fault. It’s not Virginia’s fault. It’s not anybody’s fault. It just is what it is. Nevada is littered with ghost towns where there used to be silver mines.”

            Clearly you don’t have a clue of what other jobs exist because of coal.

            There are roughly 400k+ jobs dependent upon coal mining in the United States right now. While that number may appear small to you it comprises a lot of small rural towns who have no other employer.

            Economics has nothing to do with it, the coal we previously required for power plants and the like has declined with the rise in the Green Energy push.

  27. djrippert Avatar

    Article 3 of the Virginia Way Constitution states, “Virginia government shall expend no funds contemplating the future nor enact any legislation based on economic fact.”

    Coal is dead. Get over it.

    “Virginia mines produced more than 45.9 million tons of coal in 1990, and by 2019, that annual figure fell to 12.4 million, according to federal data. As production fell, so did employment in the state’s mines, from about 10,662 workers to 2,576 over the same 30-year period.

    https://heraldcourier.com/news/local/already-under-pressure-virginia-s-coal-industry-sees-furloughs-and-idled-mines-amid-covid-19/article_53de0c22-956a-5edd-a886-b541e7689a95.html

    Peter is right, it’s time for Virginia to move on.

    1. “It’s time for Virginia to move on.”

      Virginia is moving on. Even SW Virginia is moving on. Everyone knows that coal’s days are numbered. You don’t have to tell the people of SW Virginia — it’s their jobs that are disappearing. They are desperately trying to find ways to diversify the economy. Their problem is that remote, mountainous regions are not places where most corporations want to invest. Isolation and terrain are big obstacles to development. Same problem in West Virginia. Same problem in eastern Kentucky. Same problem across Appalachia.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar

        It’s always very easy for people to say we need to do away with an industry when they don’t have skin in the game.

        There are a good number of jobs that depend on mining in this county and the byproducts of that mining. A good number of them are Union Jobs, that pay a good wage and provide good benefits.

        1. idiocracy Avatar

          That’s OK, they can all move to Northern Virginia and get IT jobs.

        2. djrippert Avatar

          Mining does not equal coal mining in Virginia. The coal costs too much to mine in much of Appalachia. It’s an economic thing.

          1. Matt Adams Avatar

            “djrippert | February 10, 2021 at 12:48 pm | Reply
            Mining does not equal coal mining in Virginia. The coal costs too much to mine in much of Appalachia. It’s an economic thing.”

            It appears you aren’t aware of jobs that coexist because of coal mining in general.

      2. djrippert Avatar

        2,576 people employed in Virginia’s mines. Out of 8.5 million Virginians. Did you cry the same tears for the employees of sliderule factories back when reverse polish notation calculators made their appearance?

        Detroit had a population of 1,849,568 in 1950. It was down to 713,777 60 years later. Between 2010 and 2019 the population declined another 6.1% to 670,031.

        Much of Appalachia was built on extractive industry. Just like much of Detroit was built on US dominance in onshore automaking.

        Things change.

        “Their problem is that remote, mountainous regions are not places where most corporations want to invest. Isolation and terrain are big obstacles to development.”

        Right. And the General Assembly can’t change remoteness, mountain ranges, isolation or terrain.

        Sometimes downsizing is the only viable plan.

        The forefathers of most residents of SW Virginia boarded rickety wooden ships and sailed across the Atlantic in search of better opportunities. Their descendants might have to move to areas of better opportunity too.

        1. Matt Adams Avatar

          “2,576 people employed in Virginia’s mines. Out of 8.5 million Virginians. Did you cry the same tears for the employees of sliderule factories back when reverse polis notation calculators made their appearance?”

          Clearly you do not know jobs that exist because of coal mining in general. Oh and I’ll be pedantic, slide rule is two words.

          One word, railroad. You know the entity you tried to discuss regarding Roanoke and fumbled it badly.

          1. djrippert Avatar

            You still want to bet where Norfolk Southern’s headquarters is located today? NS even sold their downtown tower in Norfolk this summer.

            Yes, there are other jobs that come from coal mining than just those in the mines. The problem is that the coal that is economical to mine in Virginia is running out. Virginia’s coal production and coal mining employment has been falling for decades. No doubt the subsidiary jobs that support the coal mining peter out as the coal disappears. It’s not the miners fault. It’s not Virginia’s fault. It’s not anybody’s fault. It just is what it is. Nevada is littered with ghost towns where there used to be silver mines.

          2. Matt Adams Avatar

            “You still want to bet where Norfolk Southern’s headquarters is located today? NS even sold their downtown tower in Norfolk this summer”

            Facts you only learned after you Googled it, following your previous f’ up of clamming it was Roanoke. I corrected you in stating their HQ was in Norfolk, so you can drop the blusters that you’re a tough guy. PS: they left because the taxes in this state suck.

            “Yes, there are other jobs that come from coal mining than just those in the mines. The problem is that the coal that is economical to mine in Virginia is running out. Virginia’s coal production and coal mining employment has been falling for decades. No doubt the subsidiary jobs that support the coal mining peter out as the coal disappears. It’s not the miners fault. It’s not Virginia’s fault. It’s not anybody’s fault. It just is what it is. Nevada is littered with ghost towns where there used to be silver mines.”

            Clearly you don’t have a clue of what other jobs exist because of coal.

            There are roughly 400k+ jobs dependent upon coal mining in the United States right now. While that number may appear small to you it comprises a lot of small rural towns who have no other employer.

            Economics has nothing to do with it, the coal we previously required for power plants and the like has declined with the rise in the Green Energy push.

  28. djrippert Avatar

    As far as the Chinese government … if they’re talking they’re lying.

    However, Xi’s day will come. He might be able to fight Orangeman bad but even the Canadians are getting tired of the ChiComs …

    https://www.npr.org/2020/11/05/931836672/canada-china-relationship-is-quickly-deteriorating-after-huawei-cfos-arrest

  29. djrippert Avatar

    As far as the Chinese government … if they’re talking they’re lying.

    However, Xi’s day will come. He might be able to fight Orangeman bad but even the Canadians are getting tired of the ChiComs …

    https://www.npr.org/2020/11/05/931836672/canada-china-relationship-is-quickly-deteriorating-after-huawei-cfos-arrest

  30. Interesting discussion, these last two posts. Coal is simply one means of extracting energy from fossil fuel; and moving coal by rail is simply one means of moving the energy. There was a lot of thought given to posturing utilities with alternatives to give some counterleverage over the railroads and their lock on coal deliver rates. The 1970s and 80s also featured electric utility consortiums to build coal generation in the mine-fields and massive, long-distance “extra-high-voltage” transmission lines for the purpose of delivering what came to be called “coal-by-wire.” And as pipelines go, don’t forget about the pipeline (which WAS built) to deliver imported foreign natural gas from the Chesapeake Bay to a connection to Transco (and thence to New England), for shipping to the mid-Atlantic New England. Ironically, Dominion Energy now owns that pipeline and the Cove Point terminal at the end of it, for use exporting Marcellus-shale natural gas to locations all around the Atlantic Ocean.

    I can’t believe Xi would be motivated by ideology over total energy price to reduce carbon consumption; but I CAN believe he would see in renewables energy generation a now-cost-effective way to reduce vulnerable dependence on coal imports — as well as promote the Chinese manufacturing of renewables generator components (photovoltaic cells and frames, wind turbines, and all the transformers and switchgear used in the Grid to deliver power long distances). American manufacture of this hardware has slipped badly. In fact WE are the ones who should be concerned about vulnerable dependence upon others.

    1. China is the world’s leading coal producer. Xi, like the leader of any country, has to balance constituencies with competing demands. According to Peter’s information, China’s CO2 emissions won’t peak for another 10 years! My guess is that China will see more coal-fired power plants and more coal production…. along with more wind and solar farms… for quite a while. That’s what happens when you have the world’s fastest-growing large economy.

  31. Interesting discussion, these last two posts. Coal is simply one means of extracting energy from fossil fuel; and moving coal by rail is simply one means of moving the energy. There was a lot of thought given to posturing utilities with alternatives to give some counterleverage over the railroads and their lock on coal deliver rates. The 1970s and 80s also featured electric utility consortiums to build coal generation in the mine-fields and massive, long-distance “extra-high-voltage” transmission lines for the purpose of delivering what came to be called “coal-by-wire.” And as pipelines go, don’t forget about the pipeline (which WAS built) to deliver imported foreign natural gas from the Chesapeake Bay to a connection to Transco (and thence to New England), for shipping to the mid-Atlantic New England. Ironically, Dominion Energy now owns that pipeline and the Cove Point terminal at the end of it, for use exporting Marcellus-shale natural gas to locations all around the Atlantic Ocean.

    I can’t believe Xi would be motivated by ideology over total energy price to reduce carbon consumption; but I CAN believe he would see in renewables energy generation a now-cost-effective way to reduce vulnerable dependence on coal imports — as well as promote the Chinese manufacturing of renewables generator components (photovoltaic cells and frames, wind turbines, and all the transformers and switchgear used in the Grid to deliver power long distances). American manufacture of this hardware has slipped badly. In fact WE are the ones who should be concerned about vulnerable dependence upon others.

    1. China is the world’s leading coal producer. Xi, like the leader of any country, has to balance constituencies with competing demands. According to Peter’s information, China’s CO2 emissions won’t peak for another 10 years! My guess is that China will see more coal-fired power plants and more coal production…. along with more wind and solar farms… for quite a while. That’s what happens when you have the world’s fastest-growing large economy.

  32. The overall assumption here is that Met Coal goes to CO2, and thus must be banned.

    I am not a steel chemistry expert, but I am thinking the first step after mining MetCoal is a “coking process” retort to remove lighter hydrocarbons as a liquid. Then the remaining carbon added to the steel process, some of which goes into the Steel as carbon steel. Undoubtedly the overall process makes CO2, but is generally not mentioned as much as cement manufacture as a significant cause of global CO2 emissions.

    There has always been alternatives to Met-Coal for example some petroleum cokes, production of which is also probably going up since the ship bunker fuel sulfur laws went into effect. I would not know if that is having any impact on the Met-Coal market.

    1. djrippert Avatar

      I read the overall assumption differently. Met coal is the last vestige of Virginia’s coal industry. There are alternatives to using met coal to make steel. If those alternatives grow in popularity Virginia’s coal industry will be beaten down even further than it has been beaten down over the past 30 years.

      Right now, MicroStrategy (Headquartered in Tysons) employs as many people as Virginia’s coal mines. Yet our General Assembly is still debating coal tax credits … https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?211+cab+HC10207SB1252+SB1REF

      Peter’s article combines a few more-or-less unrelated points:

      1. There are technological alternatives to using met coal in steelmaking
      2. What little coal that is still mined in Virginia is often met coal
      3. China is a big buyer of Virginia met coal.
      4. China has announced CO2 reduction plans.
      5. Maybe China will buy less Virginia met coal.

      The missing evidence is that using met coal to make steel creates substantially more CO2 than using alternate means. I don’t know, one way or the other, about that.

      However, if there are new methods for making steel that don’t involve met coal and those methods are gaining popularity – that could be bad for Virginia’s dwindling coal industry.

  33. The overall assumption here is that Met Coal goes to CO2, and thus must be banned.

    I am not a steel chemistry expert, but I am thinking the first step after mining MetCoal is a “coking process” retort to remove lighter hydrocarbons as a liquid. Then the remaining carbon added to the steel process, some of which goes into the Steel as carbon steel. Undoubtedly the overall process makes CO2, but is generally not mentioned as much as cement manufacture as a significant cause of global CO2 emissions.

    There has always been alternatives to Met-Coal for example some petroleum cokes, production of which is also probably going up since the ship bunker fuel sulfur laws went into effect. I would not know if that is having any impact on the Met-Coal market.

    1. djrippert Avatar

      I read the overall assumption differently. Met coal is the last vestige of Virginia’s coal industry. There are alternatives to using met coal to make steel. If those alternatives grow in popularity Virginia’s coal industry will be beaten down even further than it has been beaten down over the past 30 years.

      Right now, MicroStrategy (Headquartered in Tysons) employs as many people as Virginia’s coal mines. Yet our General Assembly is still debating coal tax credits … https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?211+cab+HC10207SB1252+SB1REF

      Peter’s article combines a few more-or-less unrelated points:

      1. There are technological alternatives to using met coal in steelmaking
      2. What little coal that is still mined in Virginia is often met coal
      3. China is a big buyer of Virginia met coal.
      4. China has announced CO2 reduction plans.
      5. Maybe China will buy less Virginia met coal.

      The missing evidence is that using met coal to make steel creates substantially more CO2 than using alternate means. I don’t know, one way or the other, about that.

      However, if there are new methods for making steel that don’t involve met coal and those methods are gaining popularity – that could be bad for Virginia’s dwindling coal industry.

  34. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    TBill good points. Met coal for steel is a building commodity, not energy. But, the process involves burning at very high temps. Look up what New River Valley wva looked like 100 years ago with the old style coke ovens.

  35. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    TBill good points. Met coal for steel is a building commodity, not energy. But, the process involves burning at very high temps. Look up what New River Valley wva looked like 100 years ago with the old style coke ovens.

  36. “According to Foreign Policy magazine, Xi Jinping’s announcement of China’s carbon cutting goals last September is a huge step.”

    Coal may or may not be dead in Virginia, but anyone who believes anything Xi Jinping says is a moron, foreign policy “expertise” notwithstanding.

  37. “According to Foreign Policy magazine, Xi Jinping’s announcement of China’s carbon cutting goals last September is a huge step.”

    Coal may or may not be dead in Virginia, but anyone who believes anything Xi Jinping says is a moron, foreign policy “expertise” notwithstanding.

  38. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    So we’re supposed to ignore the leader of the most populous country in. the world-be that could be a major threat to the U S? Now that makes a lot of sense. So we’re supposed to shut out what Xi says? The source is Foreign Policy?

    1. Matt Adams Avatar

      “Peter Galuszka | February 10, 2021 at 1:41 pm | Reply
      So we’re supposed to ignore the leader of the most populous country in. the world-be that could be a major threat to the U S? Now that makes a lot of sense. So we’re supposed to shut out what Xi says? The source is Foreign Policy?”

      If you’re taking Xi Jinping at his word you’re running a fools errand.

    2. I don’t recall suggesting he should be ignored. I will suggest he should not be trusted – about anything, ever.

      We absolutely should pay very close attention to what he says, if for no other reason than to know for certain what is NOT true.

      RE: The source is Foreign Policy?

      Do you trust everything they print?

  39. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    So we’re supposed to ignore the leader of the most populous country in. the world-be that could be a major threat to the U S? Now that makes a lot of sense. So we’re supposed to shut out what Xi says? The source is Foreign Policy?

    1. Matt Adams Avatar

      “Peter Galuszka | February 10, 2021 at 1:41 pm | Reply
      So we’re supposed to ignore the leader of the most populous country in. the world-be that could be a major threat to the U S? Now that makes a lot of sense. So we’re supposed to shut out what Xi says? The source is Foreign Policy?”

      If you’re taking Xi Jinping at his word you’re running a fools errand.

    2. I don’t recall suggesting he should be ignored. I will suggest he should not be trusted – about anything, ever.

      We absolutely should pay very close attention to what he says, if for no other reason than to know for certain what is NOT true.

      RE: The source is Foreign Policy?

      Do you trust everything they print?

  40. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    I not buying into Xi. That’s nus

  41. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    I not buying into Xi. That’s nus

  42. djrippert Avatar

    The peak production of coal in Virginia was in 1990 at 46.6MMSt. By 2000 it was about 34MMst. By 2010, about 22 MMSt.

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was born on Oct 13, 1989.

    Barack Obama was first elected president in 2008.

    Wyoming might have a good claim that Obama or the Green New Deal is killing its coal production but Virginia was in decline from the second year of Bush I through today, including the 8 years Bush II was president.

    Virginia’s peak coal year was 1990. The peak coal year for the US was 2008. Why did American coal production keep growing for 18 years after Virginia peaked? Because Virginia was running out of coal that was economical to mine.

    Running out of coal that is economic to mine is Virginia’s problem, not liberal politics.

  43. djrippert Avatar

    The peak production of coal in Virginia was in 1990 at 46.6MMSt. By 2000 it was about 34MMst. By 2010, about 22 MMSt.

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was born on Oct 13, 1989.

    Barack Obama was first elected president in 2008.

    Wyoming might have a good claim that Obama or the Green New Deal is killing its coal production but Virginia was in decline from the second year of Bush I through today, including the 8 years Bush II was president.

    Virginia’s peak coal year was 1990. The peak coal year for the US was 2008. Why did American coal production keep growing for 18 years after Virginia peaked? Because Virginia was running out of coal that was economical to mine.

    Running out of coal that is economic to mine is Virginia’s problem, not liberal politics.

  44. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    I don’ t know anything about sparrow point but slag is burnt out coal waste usually associated with steel making. It is also known as red dog.

  45. Peter Galuszka Avatar
    Peter Galuszka

    I don’ t know anything about sparrow point but slag is burnt out coal waste usually associated with steel making. It is also known as red dog.

  46. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Wish I’d seen this earlier. Hope BR doesn’t get a C&D order over this.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UN8bJb8biZU

  47. Nancy_Naive Avatar
    Nancy_Naive

    Wish I’d seen this earlier. Hope BR doesn’t get a C&D order over this.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UN8bJb8biZU

  48. Peter- here is an FT (paywall) article about Steel making CO2 yields. They say 7-9% of global CO2 is steel making….which combined with cement would make a huge contribution to global CO2. Hard to say more without seeing the whole article.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/m/d0084145-b876-3fd3-9bb5-2c3f75ebc542/%E2%80%98green-steel%E2%80%99-the-race-to.html

  49. Peter- here is an FT (paywall) article about Steel making CO2 yields. They say 7-9% of global CO2 is steel making….which combined with cement would make a huge contribution to global CO2. Hard to say more without seeing the whole article.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/m/d0084145-b876-3fd3-9bb5-2c3f75ebc542/%E2%80%98green-steel%E2%80%99-the-race-to.html

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