Added Pay Won’t Make Teachers Want to Stay in Bad Teaching Environments
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33 responses to “Added Pay Won’t Make Teachers Want to Stay in Bad Teaching Environments”
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Whoa! An editorial from TJI, that I AGREE with!
😉
“we”, collectively, parents, culture warriors and the GA has contributed to the degradation and diminishment of teaching as a career IMO and yes, it’s become a crappy job even if well paid because one’s career is now on the line a lot of the time and who wants to have a career where there are essentially multiple bosses after your hide for various transgressions?
Can Charter Schools “fix” this? Is this what is meant about them being public schools without the same “rules”?
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Guns. Teachers need guns.
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It certainly wouldn’t hurt – after all, the students have them… 😉
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yeah, we should let them on planes and in courthouses for sure, right?
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There is even a bill to guarantee that Virginia public teachers always make above the national average.
And if every state passes such a bill?
Infinity is a very large number…
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If one wants to improve the environment, one is going to have to be able to expel many students. Thus, leadership, politicians, and the public are going to have to tolerate and accept a lower graduation rate, a higher failure rate, and that those expelled will not be a cross section of all students.
And a true voucher system still requires a public school system in order for the private schools (and religious schools are private schools), charters, etc to be able to dump their problem students back to the public system. A total choice system would probably end up looking like the current college system were 50% of students never finish, more families have to settle on a school where they can gain admission, and the upper class is even more separated from the rest of us.
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This is one of those opinions that sounds “mean” to today’s ears but is correct. Not all kids need to stay in school past 14 or 15 and they often make the school environment worse for the kids who are there to learn (and the teachers doing their best to teach.) The actual threat of expulsion needs to stand.
It’s telling that one of the main arguments for keeping as many kids in school as possible is that they’d get into trouble elsewhere – essentially making public school a babysitter.
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There is even a bill to guarantee that Virginia public teachers always make above the national average.
And if every state passes such a bill?
Infinity is a very large number…
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Yep. Climbing an tree with no top is an expensive, fools game.
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besides, all those “above average” states are teacher union states!
;-]-
above average in pay but not always in student performance. I think retaining good teachers is as much or more about working conditions. Like many things, public education is best handled at the local level. The growth of massive education bureaucracies at every level of government seems to coincide with the decline of public schools.
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Are saying that about schools nationwide?
re: ” Like many things, public education is best handled at the local level. ”
So, if it were not from top-down mandates to do standardized testing – how much would you know about local level “performance”?
So do you know the states with best academic performance with respect to whether the teachers are unionized or not?
here’s a start:
New Jersey. #1 in NAEP Reading Scores. #19 in Best States Overall. …
Massachusetts. #2 in NAEP Reading Scores. …
Utah. #3 in NAEP Reading Scores. …
Connecticut. #4 in NAEP Reading Scores. …
Vermont. #5 in NAEP Reading Scores. …
Idaho. #6 in NAEP Reading Scores. …
Colorado. #7 in NAEP Reading Scores. …
New Hampshire. #8 in NAEP Reading Scores.
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Of the states on your list, only Vermont allows teachers to strike.
A union without the right to strike is like an airplane without wings.
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RIght but how many of the others do have teacher unions as opposed to none?
How many of those states pay teachers more than Virginia?
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Are you suggesting the VEA is not a union?
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Not in the sense that organized and more militant unions in New Jersey and Massachusetts are.
They’re pretty weak tea in a lot of counties in Virginia.
They mainly lobby in Richmond like other lobby groups do. They do provide legal protection to members from adverse actions and they do show up to “root” for raises and such. Not sure I’ve ever seen them picket, maybe they do,
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So Larry you are in favor of standardized testing like the SATs?
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And what is the proof that local politicians have produced better working environments. These are the same politicians who refuse to fail students or refuse to expel the worst students.
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Teddy, some government agency has to be in control of public schools. I am unclear what you are suggesting.
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The point is that there is no solution. To give total control to local politicians will not make the work environment better for most teachers and especially the newest teachers. It would also mean that those schools give up Title I money. And the history of discrimination against females, blacks, and Hispanics shows that local control does not benefit everyone.
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Teddy, many parents choose to homeschool or bear the expense of private school. Perhaps vouchers and school choice is a partial solution?
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AS the Fordham Institute points out, there is a maximum on homeschooling due to the need of a parent to be home and not working. In addition, as students get older, the amount of homeschooling decreases due to mom (and it is almost always a mother) not being able to teach math, science, foreign language, literature. And the best private schools have competitive admission. Moving to a voucher system just means that those already in the private schools get a subsidy while support with withdrawn from public schools. That leaves parents scrambling to find a school that will admit their child. Also, a voucher system makes moving harder due to the lack of openings in the good schools and the lack of ability to pick a good school by purchasing a home in the correct location.
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OK Teddy, I am waiting for your proposal
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The first thing to realize about education is that it operates along an S-curve where some students will learn something quickly and others may never master the subject. Any policy proposal needs to take that into consideration. Thus, schools should focus more on academic education; should work hard to identify talent and promote that talent; should also work hard to distinguish talent from coaching, parents involvement, and preparation; and should be willing to accept that some students will need to be expelled for the good of all other students.
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Where do the “expelled” students go?
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Anywhere but the school.
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many rural localities, if allowed to , would grossly underfund education. We know that from real experience.
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Rual white counties are the lowest funded public schools now due to Title I funding flowing to urban school districts with no white students.
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Are Richmond public schools grossly underfunded?
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No, they are not and yes they clearly are failing but also note that Henrico and Chesterfield also have failing schools that are near the Richmond boundaries while they have other schools that are among the better ones in Virginia.
So what’s your opinion with respect to the idea of bureaucracies, given the hits and misses that accompany them?
No, money alone, will not get you good schools especially if the demographic is mostly poverty kids with badly educated, lower income parents.
But “good” administrators in places like Henrico also won’t produce good schools especially those with similar demographics as Richmond.
But also, 3/4 of Va is rural where they lack the economic ability or will to fully fund schools and the rest of Virginia has to subsidize them and mandate staffing.
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Larry, “demographics” sounds like a racist code word to me.
It will make new teachers take the job and then quit or transfer a year or two later.
This is not accidental. For a couple of decades, Republican administrations have sucked money away from public schools while concurrently demeaning public schools and their teachers.
Now, the Republican dream is coming true. Public schools are starved for money; teachers have had enough of the abuse; the kids sense the death of public schools. All of which is the GOP goal — to destroy public schools, turn that money to private schools, and keep “those people” out of the private schools.
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