Warning: These Comments May be Divisive
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82 responses to “Warning: These Comments May be Divisive”
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Pitiful. Blinded by the narrative. Why are you so afraid of folks thinking for themselves and learning the difference between facts and BS?
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Yeah I mean look at that hottie. Do you blame them?
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Dick, this is the most thoughtful critique I have seen of Youngkin’s approach to dealing with CRT in schools. You make several valid points that Youngkin supporters need to come to grips with — especially the vagueness of the concept of banning “inherently divisive concepts.”
I have a couple of immediate thoughts in response and will bear your critique in mind as I continue to write about these issues.
First, I find it amusing that Dems and libs find the concept of a “tip line” so reprehensible. Every public university in Virginia urges students to report offense of sexual or racial nature for investigation and possible punishment. I’ve not heard one word of complaint about these. I’ll bet some school districts have the same. The caterwauling about the tip lines is purely tactical, not based on principle.
Second, there is no avoiding discussing uncomfortable topics in history classes. It is not Youngkin’s intention to suppress the teaching of slavery, segregation, Massive Resistance, etc. I agree with you that teaching these topics should be viewed as an opportunity to teach students critical thinking. The question is whether certain non-favored (non-Woke) perspectives will be entertained in class. Say, to pick a theoretical example, a student tried to argue that, yes, U.S. slavery was bad, but White people aren’t the only ones who were guilty of it. The Tartars and Ottomans enslaved Whites (primarily slavs, from which the word was derived). The Arab slave trade was as large as the Atlantic slave trade, not to mention that Africans were the ones who did the actual enslaving. Would such a perspective be permitted in the Woke classroom, or will students be forced to adopt the view of collective White guilt?
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The very same teacher who teaches about the slavery, segregation, and Massive Resistance will hit on the hot line. The hot line is a very bad idea, it takes away from critical thinking. If I teach kids to think critically, I’ll probably be reported. I need my little low paying job to pay off my student loans. I guess I better just teach them to recite facts. If I was a literature teacher or history teacher, I would be insulted by a hot line.
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You would have a right to be insulted. See my reply to Jim above.
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I suspect you’d be way more than just insulted – probably intimidated if a “tip’ was generated and then came back to your school then down through the folks you report to.
Looks like Youngkin might have a problem with “ideas” he is getting then implementing.
This is a disaster of an idea that may well harm him politically and engender skepticism on other proposals – especially in the GA -even with his own party (even though some wacadoodle types obviously like it).
Very much a McCarthyism smell to it.
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I think you are taking the governor’s dirtection out of context. His efforts, it seems to me, point toward unifying.
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I oppose this particular tip line as a matter of political philosophy.
I support tip lines to report violations of law. Laws are passed by the General Assembly and signed by the Governor. That is our republican system of government.
I oppose using a tip line in support of an Executive Order from a Governor of either party.
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My concern is government overreach. By constitutional language, school boards govern teachers, not the governor’s office. Are these tips being referred to the local school board?
I applaud your effort. I would not want my child to feel guilty about racism that didn’t happen on her watch, but I would like her to know this country was built on an economy based on slavery. We need to better define the terms.
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SOME parts of this country were built on an economy based on slavery.
Much economic growth occurred after slavery was outlawed, primarily in states where it was never legal.
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Every economy in the world was based on slavery in some part. China still has defacto slave labor.
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That is my point. I want my kid to know about reality. I am not sure that I want her to believe she is racist because she is white and her ancestors purported slavery.
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My suspicion is that the vast majority of white people in the USA had ancestors who never owned slaves and never purported slavery.
Most of my ancestors weren’t even in the USA until after 1865.
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But did your ancestors benefit from education and jobs that were denied to blacks?
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None of my ancestors ever went to college. My ancestors were pretty much poor. They didn’t own large multi-acre plantations in the South, for example.
Nor did they get cushy Federal government jobs with a pension that pays out 70% of their salary, as another example.
And, with all of that, combined with the fact that none of my ancestors are from the South, the answer to your question is very likely NO.
What you fail to realize, having the background that you do, is that the experience of a white person who can trace their roots back to Colonial America is very, very different from one who has ancestors that are much more recent arrivals to this country.
Have you ever used family connections to get a job or education that was denied to others who don’t have those family connections, for example?
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So your ancestors has access to jobs that were denied to blacks? Was that kind of discrimination fairly common before the Civil Rights Act?
Do you think blacks accumulated wealth the same as whites?
How would blacks have “family connections’ like whites if they were denied on a racial basis jobs and education?
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Larry, the fact that tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands, or even millions) of Blacks left the South for the North, which is where my ancestors are from, is proof enough that it was better for them there.
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Larry, the fact that tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands, or even millions) of Blacks left the South for the North, which is where my ancestors are from, is proof enough that it was better for them there.
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there was Still job and education discrimination even in the north. The Civil Rights Act came about in response to that – right?
if blacks were denied access to jobs that whites were not….
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The Civil Rights act that was primarily supported by politicians from the North, and primarily opposed by politicians from the South?
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The point is that there was widespread discrimination against blacks, north and south, for jobs and education.
there were jobs that whites could get that blacks were denied – for decades, for generations.
It shows up in family wealth, land ownership, education, etc.
Your ancestors likely had access to more jobs and education, home loans, etc than blacks did.
do you not think that?
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Home loans? How out of touch you are. My ancestors rented.
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then they likely rented where blacks were denied.
You’re missing the point here. It’s not about your own family specific circumstances. It’s about
access to opportunities for blacks in that era where your own ancestors were not discriminated
against like blacks were. Can’t you admit that? -
Larry,
I get that you probably have some guilt pangs over your own family history, but don’t try to generalize that experience to the rest of us white folks.
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I have no guilt but I do recognize facts and realities. It’s not about guilt at all – it’s about acknowledging history and it’s effects. The very same way I recognize how Native Americans have been treated. We did not have an “equal’ society and it did have disparate impacts to families, generations.
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No, we don’t have an “equal” society, and just because two people share the same skin color does not mean their experiences are “equal” either.
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totally true – but when you compare one demographic group with another -then what explains the disparities when we KNOW their ancestors did not – as a group – have equal opportunities – which WAS based on skin color?
You can’t recognize that discrimination based on race – DID EXIST and DID have generational impacts?
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Yes, it DID EXIST and DID have generational impacts, primarily thanks to politicians like Byrd and his ilk.
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Yep – much more widespread than that – race-based job discrimination was widespread far beyond the south. Assigning blame doesn’t change the realities of the impacts – they’re just as real. Many people were denied access to jobs, education, banking, housing, etc based on race. Way more than just Mr. Byrd.
Even institutions like the Military, Police, fire depts, Construction, etc… did it.
Surely you learned about this in school, no?
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Well Larry, I must ask you–why did the Voting Rights act apply to the entire state of Virginia, when not a single Northern state got a blanket application of that law?
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Voting rights was a different issue – there were explicit laws in the South (and some North) that were targeted to blacks. You know that, I’m sure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_States#
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And aren’t voting rights laws generally a reflection of the attitudes of the citizens towards race relations, having been put in place by politicians elected by those citizens?
So how is it any different?
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There were different forms of discrimination in different regions. Racism in the South was very widespread and virulent, and extended further and deeper than the north. Doesn’t change the fact that it existed in a lot of places even if “less” than others. Taking a break tonight. See you next.
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The same reason the EP didn’t apply to the northern or “Neutral” states.
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Larry has obviously never been to Appalachia. There are plenty of dirt pour white people who have lived that way for generations, but would gladly give you the shirt of their backs.
I’ve been hoping that Youngkin would slide a bit towards the center after throwing the red meat out, and I expect that will still happen to keep the moderates in his camp who were key to defeating TM. If he is, as I hope, an example of the pathway away from a Trump-dominated Republican party, then he’ll need to at some point, but for now he’s just pissing off the far-left wing, which is probably fine with the overwhelming majority of VA voters.
I hadn’t thought of the potential impact though on teachers retiring or quitting. Some might say that this will drum out the ones who should be gone, but it’s potentially analogous to the impact felt within police forces from the ‘defund the police’ movement. We should be careful what we wish for.
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So true.
So we have fully progressed from . .
“Critical Race Theory, what’s that?’
to
“Critical Race Theory is not in the public schools”
to
“Critical Race Theory is not TAUGHT in the public schools”
to
“How can we possibly teach without Critical Race Theory?”
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Hmm.. teaching the FACTS of Slavery in America is an ‘inherently divisive concept”.
We should revert back to the Happy Slave approach, eh?
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We can teach the “Happy Slave” theory right before we teach the “Virginia is the best state in the country” theory. And right after that, the “Lost Cause” theory.
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We can teach the “Happy Slave” theory right before we teach the “Virginia is the best state in the country” theory. And right after that, the “Lost Cause” theory.
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“LarrytheG Scott McPhail • 5 hours ago
Hmm.. teaching the FACTS of Slavery in America is an ‘inherently divisive concept”.We should revert back to the Happy Slave approach, eh?”
If you’re purporting that the 1619 project is “facts”, you’ve got a very lose understanding of what facts are and haven’t been acquainted with the project own fact checkers who wished it corrected.
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As I’ve written before, I attended government schools in Virginia in the 1970s. I was never taught the “Happy Slave” theory of history or the “Lost Cause” theory of history or the “War between the states” theory of history. And that was 50 years ago.
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“I attended government schools in Virginia in the 1970s”
But that was in “Occupied Northern Virginia”, wasn’t it?
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Yes, it was. So, let’s exempt Northern Virginia from CRT, anti-racism, etc. Those efforts probably have a good reason to exist among the Plantation Elite but not all Virginians.
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Works for me.
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safe to say NoVa shed some of those things before other parts of Virginia. Did NoVa participate in Massive Resistance?
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Do you think it was never taught? Do you consider it ‘indoctrination’ when it was taught?
Do you think some people grew up believing it and bringing their kids up with the same beliefs?
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Rich! A liberal advocating for the right to make students “uncomfortable.” What happened to “safe spaces” and coloring books?
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I always have thought the idea of safe spaces was silly.
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Didn’t “safe spaces” begin with GW Bush? Oh wait, no, those were “free speech zones”.
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Better yet, a liberal decrying a lack of open and honest discussion in government schools. A gym teacher was fired for saying that using pronouns other than the traditional ones violated his religious beliefs.
The last thing on Earth the woke mob wants or accepts is an open and honest discussion of history or current events.
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‘safe” =
It is impossible to teach history, government or even literature without somebody finding something they can claim is “divisive.” Divisive is an industry now, quite profitable. And some people think math instruction or grammar are racist (producing racist test results for those who don’t master them.) This is going to be a useless and even damaging exercise.
Shame, shame on any parents or grandparents who let the public schools be the only source of information or attitude on these topics. The Virginia textbooks of my youth were crap but I paid no attention to them — before being exposed I’d been to Mt. Vernon, to Williamsburg, and at some point in high school to Gettysburg. My parents made it clear that what Virginia was doing in resistance to integration at the time was wrong. And by the time UVA got its hooks into my son, he was fairly well grounded and not due to the schools. First major Civil War history I read, also in HS, was Catton’s series, so not exactly pro-South. (THEN Shelby Foote and Freeman’s Lee.)
Where did the Governor say not to elicit emotion? Did you even read “Changing Culture with the Other CRT” here on BR or VDOE’s “EdEquityVA”?
…Are you comfortable with Zarreta Hammond’s “instructional activities around collectivist cultural principles —
group harmony and interdependence,” that refers to the 1920’s
“socio-cultural learning” concept of Russian psychologist Lev Vygotsky
(1896-1934).
…That’s not divisive right? (tongue in cheek) Except some parents value encouraging independent thinking and don’t want their children taught Marxist principles “to understand their place in history.”
..Go up against a principal or school board and you might be banned from school property.
..And it’s not just for parents. Teachers might want to object to being told “White teachers need a special kind of therapy. They must learn to deal with what Cheryl E, Matias calls ‘White emotionalities’ and what Robin DiAngelo has termed ‘White fragility'” to deal iwth guilt and shame over racism. (Part of EdEquityVa)
.. I said then in the comments that children and teachers don’t need shaming and blaming to accept and respect each other, and I’ll add here, or to learn accurate history–about what was wrong and what was right in the past.
Here is the [current] version of HB1068. It defines “inherently divisive concepts” as it relates to the proposed law:
§ 22.1-208.03. Curricula and instruction including inherently divisive concepts prohibited.
A. As used in this section, “inherently divisive concepts” means advancing any ideas in violation of Title IV and Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended, including the following concepts: (i) one race, sex, or faith is inherently superior to another race, sex, or faith; (ii) an individual, by virtue of his or her race, sex, or faith, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or subconsciously; (iii) an individual should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment solely or partly because of his or her race, sex, or faith; (iv) members of one race, sex, or faith cannot and should not attempt to treat others as individuals without respect to race, sex, or faith; (v) an individual’s moral character is inherently determined by his or her race, sex, or faith; (vi) an individual, by virtue of his or her race, sex, or faith, bears responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, sex, or faith; and (vii) meritocracy or traits, such as a hard work ethic, are racist or sexist or were created by a particular race to oppress another race.
B. Each public elementary or secondary school principal shall ensure that no curriculum utilized or instruction delivered in the school includes inherently divisive concepts, regardless of whether such curriculum or instruction is provided by a school board employee or any other individual or entity.
“Governor Youngkin would prohibit teachers from raising ideas that make some people uncomfortable.”
Unless those people are trans students in which case it is their 1st Amendment right to say anything they feel like saying. WWTD (what would Tanner do)?
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“Eric the half a troll • an hour ago
“Governor Youngkin would prohibit teachers from raising ideas that make some people uncomfortable.”Unless those people are trans students in which case it is their 1st Amendment right to say anything they feel like saying. WWTD (what would Tanner do)?”
Continuing to bring up a legal case in which you were proven wrong won’t change anything. The only thing it does is further illustrate your lack of education.
And every IG tip line leaves managers & workers shaking in their cubicles………..if you’re not doing anything wrong — WHAT ME WORRY?
The tip line is a mistake. The Governor should end it.
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Why? There have been verified cases of teachers, school board members and parents in Loudoun County creating and maintaining secret “enemies lists” of parents who disagree with anti-racism being the doctrine used in Loudoun’s government schools. If parents can’t talk to the teachers, administrators or school board members about their concerns regarding divisive teaching then why not open a tip line?
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/mar/17/loudoun-county-teachers-blacklist-dox-parents-crit/
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I just fundamentally disagree with government tip lines for reasons other than law enforcement. An EO is not a law. I don’t want to live in a country in which it is treated like one.
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“Rather than allowing teachers to expose students to ideas that challenge long-held beliefs and perhaps teaching those students to think critically, . . .”
So when is indoctrination not indoctrination?
Apparently when it challenges “long-held beliefs,” i.e. things not held sacred by the Democratic Party
But use the wrong pronoun and lose your job.
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When it doesn’t challenge your beliefs.
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I agree…where/when does a teacher ‘cross the line’? It’s a slippery slope…
It is impossible to teach history, government or even literature without somebody finding something they can claim is “divisive.” Divisive is an industry now, quite profitable. And some people think math instruction or grammar are racist (producing racist test results for those who don’t master them.) This is going to be a useless and even damaging exercise.
Shame, shame on any parents or grandparents who let the public schools be the only source of information or attitude on these topics. The Virginia textbooks of my youth were crap but I paid no attention to them — before being exposed I’d been to Mt. Vernon, to Williamsburg, and at some point in high school to Gettysburg. My parents made it clear that what Virginia was doing in resistance to integration at the time was wrong. And by the time UVA got its hooks into my son, he was fairly well grounded and not due to the schools. First major Civil War history I read, also in HS, was Catton’s series, so not exactly pro-South. (THEN Shelby Foote and Freeman’s Lee.)
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Don’t forget Maths. Oh wait. Divisive. Close.
The missing dynamic in this whole debate is the power imbalance between teachers and students. To an 11-year old, the teacher is an authority figure. Teachers control what is discussed in the classroom, they decide who gets to speak and they determine the grades. And if a parent complains? The jackasses in Loudoun County Public Schools already put together a secret Facebook group to collect the names, addresses, employers and even the names of spouses who dared to question the CRT-inspired garbage being peddled in Loudoun’s government schools.
There are plenty of miscreant teachers in the government schools all too willing to push their ideology onto their students and make any student who disagrees pay. Hell, they even tried to threaten the parents who disagreed in Loudoun County.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/mar/17/loudoun-county-teachers-blacklist-dox-parents-crit/
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shades of Mccarthyism! Sounds about right , eh?
“Inherently divisive” is in the eyes of the beholder and given the politics , it’s going to be used as a weapon against schools and teachers.
Youngkin is going to create a staff to wade through these and then do what?
Contact the School System with a complaint against a teacher?
Then what? Call witnesses and determine punishment?
I think this is gonna backfire big time…. and for good reason.
Careful Dick. You might upset the Right and they might discover their “feelings” thus losing the ability to call others “snowflakes”.
Quite the compliment from the white grievance committee earlier.
“If we’re going to teach about African American history, why just keep it to one month? Let’s teach it throughout. Let’s talk about these things. You can’t escape history. Let’s talk about the good, the bad and the ugly.”
What manner of woke, liberal, leftist made that statement?
Winsome Sears, Republican Lt Governor of Virginia.
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that’s talk-the-talk, let’s see what the walk-the-walk is.
Easy to blather… not so easy to do
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I agree wholeheartedly. However, lots of people seem not to want their children to hear about the ugly and, under the governor’s proposals, those divisive aspects would likely be toned down, if not omitted altogether.
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Yep. Good for her. Given her own ancestry, born in Jamaica in 1964 – does she know how the history of Slavery, Jim Crow, and the Lost Cause were actually being taught in Virginia Schools well into the 1970’s?
And we know from actual comments here in BR over many blog posts as well as elsewhere across Virginia consider any recounting of actual slavery, Jim Crow, The Lost Cause , etc as “inherently divisive”, CRT that makes white kids feel bad about their own “white’ heritage.
Back in those days, Virginia actually had a State Commission that mandated the Jim Crow version of history in textbooks and not a whimper about good, bad or ugly.
How about today, to protect teachers from being “reported”,for their own version of “history’, we do a similar State Commission that MANDATES that the actual Good, Bad and ugly of Slavery, Jim Crow, and the Lost Cause be in all History textbooks used in Virginia and MUST be taught. (and of course to appease some white fragility, that there be a sentence or two about how other countries were doing it also – like Jamaica! where Sears was born)!
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Yep. Good for her. Given her own ancestry, born in Jamaica in 1964 – does she know how the history of Slavery, Jim Crow, and the Lost Cause were actually being taught in Virginia Schools well into the 1970’s?
And we know from actual comments here in BR over many blog posts as well as elsewhere across Virginia consider any recounting of actual slavery, Jim Crow, The Lost Cause , etc as “inherently divisive”, CRT that makes white kids feel bad about their own “white’ heritage.
Back in those days, Virginia actually had a State Commission that mandated the Jim Crow version of history in textbooks and not a whimper about good, bad or ugly.
How about today, to protect teachers from being “reported”,for their own version of “history’, we do a similar State Commission that MANDATES that the actual Good, Bad and ugly of Slavery, Jim Crow, and the Lost Cause be in all History textbooks used in Virginia and MUST be taught. (and of course to appease some white fragility, that there be a sentence or two about how other countries were doing it also – like Jamaica! where Sears was born)!
Won’t be long before EVERY classroom will have a video feed – just like the Cops body cameras… eh?
And heckfire, if we already have them for “virtual” – no extras cost … except maybe for Youngkins “Office of Divisive Concepts” who view video tape from around the state according to tip-line “tips”. right?
There is a massive distinction between a hot line to report rape and sexual abuse and a tip line to report what someone considers inherently offensive. The Governor would do well to provide a very specific explanation of what constitutes “critical race theory”. The concept has been critically mangled that few really understand what it means. There is a lot of racism in our country but we are not a racist nation,
On the first day of Black History Month, at least 13 HBCUs canceled classes due to bomb threats. But Conservatives want us to believe racism doesn’t exist anymore.
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“Eric the half a troll • 6 minutes ago
On the first day of Black History Month, at least 13 HBCUs canceled classes due to bomb threats. But Conservatives want us to believe racism doesn’t exist anymore.”So you’ve pre-determined that it was motivated by racism without a shred of evidence. So you’re a clairvoyant? Also, assigning something people didn’t say to them is called making a strawman. Something you do regularly, does racism exist, yes. Is it systematic? No. Those are two entire different points, which you cannot separate.
Mr. Dick I think your bullet list of controversial topics will be taught and most teachers will keep it between the lines. I do agree with you in one area. If I were teaching right now I would give the Civil War as little attention as possible. Cover the SOLS factoids and push on. Way too many landmines in that topic now. Too bad. Used to be one of my favorite things to teach. In US History you really only need to make to OPeration Desert Storm. Not much after that ever shows up on the SOL test. Nice way of avoiding the last 30 years of culture war history.
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