The Vice Tightens

I hope someone in the McDonnell administration reads the Wall Street Journal. I’m getting queasier and queasier about the idea of Virginia taking on more debt. I reproduce this blog post from the Boomergeddon blog.

Financial markets have tightened their grip on sovereign debt — especially U.S. municipal debt — in the past two months. The yield on 30-year, AAA-rated general obligation bonds has soared from about 3.75% to 5.0% since late 2010 — the highest interest rates since the darkest days of the Global Financial Crisis.

The squeeze has been caused largely by the anticipated expiration of some $109 billion worth of letters of credit and similar guarantees that municipalities used as short-term financing to get them through the depths of the financial crisis. “Municipalities may be hard-pressed to come up with this money or refinance this debt,” the Wall Street Journal quoted Eric Friedland, a municipal analyst at Fitch Ratings, as saying.

Bond analysts say that the crunch could lead to some municipalities defaulting on their debt, with spillover effects to banks that backed the bonds with letters of credit. “This is one area of risk the market hasn’t focused on,” said Frederick Cannon, a banking analyst at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods.

The Journal highlighted a bond auction that proved disappointing to the New Jersey Economic Development Authority. The government agency fought to refinance a short-term, variable interest loan but had to reduce its planned $1.8 billion offering to $1.1 billion because investors were demanding higher rates. In another sign that investors are shying away from the municipal market, mutual fund giant Vanguard dropped plans to roll out three new municipal bond funds, citing market turmoil.

As investors take a closer look at state/local finances, the more disconcerted they get. I’ve prominently highlighted Meredith Whitney’s analysis in this blog (see “The Next Big Meltdown: Failed States“), in which she predicted a wave of municipal bankruptcies.

Now, it appears, New Jersey’s unfunded pension liabilities are coming under closer scrutiny. Officially, the state’s pension liabilities amount to $54 billion, writes James Freeman in an op-ed into today’s Journal. But the state optimistically assumes an 8.5% return annual return on investment. Independent estimates suggest the shortfall could be as high as $175 billion — and that doesn’t include liabilities for retiree health benefits, which could total another $67 billion. If investors start turning over the rocks of Illinois and California obligations, who knows what kind of bugs will come crawling out? Both states have been relying upon accounting gimmicks for so long, there could be all manner of unpleasant surprises.

If yields on AAA-rated debt have climbed to 5.0%, states with lousy credit ratings will find the cost of capital to be even more expensive. And it’s the states with poor credit ratings that tend to be the most dependent upon the long-term debt to begin with. Fortunately, states are restricted in their ability to fund ongoing operations through debt, so the higher interest rates will not punish state or municipal governments as much as they would hammer federal finances.

But the market is speaking, and investors clearly don’t like what they see. If enough municipal bankruptcies occur, negative sentiment could easily spread to to government obligations of all kind, including federal Treasury securities. Then the state/local problem becomes a federal problem.

With its AAA credit rating, Virginia has less to lose from higher interest rates on munis than other states. But Gov. McDonnell’s plan to borrow another $3 billion for transportation funding would push the state to the outer bounds of prudence. And all for what? We haven’t even seen a list of the transportation projects yet! In all probability, the money would go to projects approved by the Commonwealth Transportation Board, reflecting the priorities of the 2000s decade. But things are very different now, as I’ll explain in a future post about the prospects for continued oil price hikes. We need a new set of priorities. Let’s not invest $3 billion in projects of dubious value.


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66 responses to “The Vice Tightens”

  1. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    Jim,
    So what is Virginia supposed to do? Not build and fix roads? Not raise taxes? Do nothing?
    That's the problem. You offer all of these warnings but I don't see many alternative solutuions from you.
    Sounding the clarion call all the time only goes so far.

    Peter Galuszka

  2. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Peter, when people are really convinced there's a problem, I'll get back into details about specific solutions at that time. In the meantime, I refer readers to my corpus of writing in Bacon's Rebellion. I have written about transportation and land use issues in tremendous depth, and I have explained my thinking on issues ranging from economic development to education. But no one will have an appetite for the kind of change I advocate unless they feel their backs are against the wall. That's why I harp on the fiscal dangers.

  3. Gooze Views Avatar
    Gooze Views

    Jim,
    Sorry but this is a cop out. If you are going to clang the alarm (again and again) you owe us solutions. And not at some later date. Right here. Right now!
    (Or you will have no credibility)

    Peter Galuszka

  4. The bust is over, and has been for a while.

    Some people just can't see it yet.

    Retail and food service are now above pre-recession levels,and those sectors are among the LAST to recover.

    As long as virgina does not borrow faster than it grows, it can borrow indefinitely.

    I'm reminded of a frind who went into debt far over his head to buy an old decrepit marina. Every year he lost money, and every year he made improvements that made it worth more, and every year he borrowed more to keep it in operation.

    When he died his daughter inherited a gigantic debt, yet the current paid up equity was also far larger than his original investment.

    She inherited something like $10 million in paid up equity and $40 million in debt. I didn't hear her complaining about the debt, one little bit.

    Sure, it would have been nice to have no debt, but there would also be no marina, no $10 million, and no jobs.

    Then she got wiped out by a hurricane, and collected enough off the insurance to rebuild newer and better with less debt.

    I don't see the problem here. What would have been a problem would be if her father ahd not taken the risk, paid his share of the debt, and struggled for years to make improvements out of next to nothing and recycled junk.

  5. Anonymous Avatar

    The federal government should institute a new tax on commodities speculation and trading. The tax would be 50% of the gain if the asset held more than six months. If the asset were held six months or less, the tax would jump to 80% of the gain. Losses could be offset to only one-half of the gains in any tax year.

    If a taxpayer takes possession of 80% of the amount of commodities covered by futures contracts, it would not be subject to the 50% tax; however, if the asset is held less than six months, the tax would still be 30%. The proceeds could be used to retire federal debt.

    States could piggyback a tax that would not exceed 19%. Gotta let the traders make some profit.

    TMT

  6. ha ha ha.. as I started reading the last post …continuing from Ray's prior.. I was thinking… "holy moly.. Ray is writing this….!!!!!

    until I got to the end at saw the TMT sign…

    what a relief!

    there are ways to measure debt and risk that have been around a long time.

    One of the most simple for the consumer is how much of a house payment you can afford … for simple interest loans.

    It went haywire when the packages got more "sophisticated" and was embraced by consumers who are simply not financially literate.

    Any kind of business including a Marina has as one of it's biggest threats and all business owners with any smarts are very aware of this threat.. because it can not only undermine their own business plan but the premise that underlies their finances and debt.

    This threat is called – competition.

    Debt is not an advantage when you are competing.. it's a potentially damaging aspect of your ability to – compete

    because you have to pay that debt off and paying it off means you count on some flow of business and if a competitor comes along – they're going to cut into your revenues….

    Watch what happens over and over to decades-long family stores and service stations when WaWa or Sheetz shows up.

    These business don't go down clean. They often go down ugly and wipe out the finances of those who owned them for along time – unless they know to get out quick and take bankruptcy if they have to instead of slowly letting what they've accumulated get sucked away.

    I can't see anyone being comfortable with a 10 million debt – that is not rapidly getting paid off and basically you are hanging waiting for whatever will happen to you next without any real options for getting free of it.

    The only way I'd feel comfortable with that kind of debt is if the value of the business was such that you could get the 10 million even at fire sale prices and under better conditions make several million on the sale.

    Bottom Line – 10 million dollar debt at the individual level is way over most people's pay grades.

  7. "Retail and food service are now above pre-recession levels, and those sectors are among the LAST to recover."

    This is true.

    However, comparing the balance sheets of corporations to those of households leads to very different conclusions, IMO.

    2011 will see more foreclosures than any previous year….this is the peak we are being told.

    The "average" household continues to fumble along and faces stagnant wages, higher energy costs, higher food costs, higher health care costs, etc.

    If you only look at the health of corporations you are only looking at one side of the equation.

    We appear to have solved 50% of the problem with complete disregard to the the other half.

  8. Same thing happened in the Marina business: Marriott and other big hotel chains got in the business.

    They were able to do it because they had access to and could afford more debt.

    Debt is absolutely an asset to any business.

    Without some debt you cannot serve as many customers or grow as fast.

    And what happens to those customers? They go to your competitor, who borrowed to get the facilities to serve them.

    I do not know the specifics of my friends Marina business. But I know how many slips she has, and how many employees. I understand her maintenance and repair business. And she builds a new custom yacht from scratch every couple of years.

    I know what marinas sell for. She could easily be worth ten million clear and owe another 40.

    It would scare me to death, but she can tolerate that risk profile.

    I'll bet she is praying for the day Marriott shows up with a bundle of cash, and she won't care if Marriott had to borrow it.

  9. TMT:

    You are out of your mind on this commodities crap.

    What reason would government have for confiscating that much property?

    I depend on commodity prices here on the farm, and I applaud the competition that keeps the prices fair.

  10. Assume my friend has an 80% debt to equity ratio. She is worth$50 million gross and ten. million net. Her debt costs her 7% and her operations plus appreciation are making her 11%. She can lose 1% on operations and still become wealthy indefinitely. She is making 4% on the whole kaboodle, $50 million, not just the $10 million she owns outright.

    she own

    "

  11. With regard to Jim's tome… both at the Federal level and the State level – we need to distinguish between normal govt operations and entitlements and better understand the difference – and the solutions.

    Medicare and SS are not funded from Federal Income Taxes but rather from FICA – a separate dedicated revenue stream which has for 60 years up until recently run surpluses most years.

    It is important to understand why that has been that way – at the same time the non-FICA Federal budget has run annual trillion dollar deficits that now total 14+ trillion total debt.

    Entitlement programs need to be run – as they have been – as actuarial insurance programs rather than like individual 401 or HSA plans.

    In other words, everyone pays into the program and everyone is entitled to collect benefits as long as they live but they are not entitled to collect the "balance" of what they paid if they die.

    On the other hand, if they outlive what they paid into, they will still receive benefits –

    …. because Medicare and SS (and all entitlements SHOULD) be run as insurance and not funds.

    If you do this and correct for the life expectancy demographics (automatically indexed, ideally) OR you increase FICA to apply to all earnings instead of capped OR you means test benefits OR you increase co-pays for non essential benefits… any or ALL combination as required – these programs clearly have the potential to be easily sustainable for a long, long time .. indefinitely.

    There is no need to dismantle these programs – on the basis that they are not sustainable …because they clearly are.

    Both deficits commissions made that same point and both of them showed how to easily put these programs back on a solvency track.

    So.. let's FIRST stop predicting gloom and doom for the country if we don't fix our "bankrupt" entitlements program that is going to "consume all Federal tax revenues" …

    which is a blatant misrepresentation of the truth!

    NEXT –

    look at the Income Tax Funded side of the budget – which has NOTHING TO DO with SS and about 90% nothing to do with Medicare (and we ought to fix that 10%)

    We simply are spending a trillion dollars more on general government, military and homeland security than we are taking in – in income taxes.

    We've done this for a decade and no one – least of all those who claim to be budget hawks and fiscal conservatives has yet to confront this simple reality.

    They talk about "out of control" govt spending but not one of them except for perhaps Ron Paul has the backbone to name the cuts necessary to remove the trillion dollar deficit ..OR.. ADMIT that we need higher taxes to balanced the budget – or more likely a combination of both.

    This is why I'd like to see Jim – address this fundamental untruth being perpetrated by those who claim to be budget hawks and fiscal conservatives.

    We cannot fix the non-FICA part of the budget by killing SS and Medicare.

    You can do that and you will STILL have an annual trillion dollar deficit and 14+ trillion debt.

    At the State level in Va – we are saved this ignoble and dishonest fallacy because our Constitution says that we cannot run annual structural deficits.

    continued….

  12. …continued….

    The two largest consumers of the general fund in Va are Education and Law Enforcement (to include the prisons – the largest group of state employees).

    We keep trying to further conflate general fund revenues with transportation expenditures but thankfully enough of our "clown show" representatives in Richmond have enough good sense to recognize that we do not want a budget environment that pits education and law enforcement against transportation and that transportation really needs to operate from dedicated funding …"self-funded" by specific dedicated revenue streams.

    Recognize also that Va expends transportation dollars on things that 46 other states do not do – and that is local roads while the other states make that a local responsibility and in some places a separate tax – administered by a direct elected road commission.

    we might consider that.

    Finally, recognize that we spend a crap-load of money on local schools.

    The localities also want more "state money" but the reality is that localities already has significant local property and real estate taxes to pay for things that are not basic core academic – but the extras that parents and kids want.

    We have a problem with defined benefit pensions that needs to be fixed but overall Virginia has not spun out of control like some states and is easily able to make course corrections to keep us on a fiscally sustainable track.

  13. Groveton Avatar

    "Sorry but this is a cop out.".

    It is starting to sound that way. Jim, you and EMR have some very interesting long term ideas about transportation and land use. However, your ideas will take a long time to organize, enact, plan and implement. And those are just the pre-requisite steps before the ideas start to have an impact. In the meantime?

    "As long as virgina does not borrow faster than it grows, it can borrow indefinitely.".

    100% right. It doesn't mean Virginia has to borrow or should borrow – only that it can borrow.

    "Debt is not an advantage when you are competing.. it's a potentially damaging aspect of your ability to – compete".

    Mostly wrong. Wal Mart has $33B in long term debt, up from $27B in 2007. Is Wal-Mart uncompetitive? AS Hydra correctly observes, the issus is the level of debt in relation to expected future revenues/profits/cash flow. Jim's article about New Jersey, Illinois and California also misses this point.

    "The "average" household continues to fumble along and faces stagnant wages, higher energy costs, higher food costs, higher health care costs, etc.".

    That's a pretty general statement. In Virginia state "revenues" (the term politicians euphemistically use to describe a myriad of taxes) are up 9% in December over the year before. Even Creigh Deeds was on Twitter yesterday saying that industrial production in Virginia was up in in December.

  14. " "Debt is not an advantage when you are competing.. it's a potentially damaging aspect of your ability to – compete".

    Mostly wrong. Wal Mart has $33B in long term debt, up from $27B in 2007. Is Wal-Mart uncompetitive? AS Hydra correctly observes, the issus is the level of debt in relation to expected future revenues/profits/cash flow."

    I concur and admit error on my previous assertion.

    But I'm not 100% wrong per se and let me explain.

    All things being equal – and they never are – in a competitive marketplace, the level of debt that you carry relative to your competitors is an important factor.

    If you are both trying to grow and you are tapped out on your debt and they can borrow more to expand more, better, faster than you then debt is an important factor.

    In terms of States – there are standards for debt and I'm mostly ignorant and maybe Groveton or Jim or someone can enlighten.

    How much debt is a safe level of debt for Virginia?

    What is an industry standard for measuring that level of debt?

    should it be debt as a percentage of revenues or state domestic product

    ..or interest paid as a percentage of some revenue or asset benchmark?

    If such benchmarks are available (and I assume they are if rating agencies assign fiscal fitness ratings on bonds)…

    then how do states get into trouble….???

    and how does Virginia not stray into doing what other states have done?

  15. Groveton Avatar

    As an aside, here are the transportation projects which could be funded by the additional debt.

    http://www.virginiadot.org/news/resources/Statewide/sectran/Combined_Master_1-13-11_V10_SOT-No_Phase.pdf

  16. On Transportation in particular in Va…. McDonnell has correctly recognized that increasing the gas tax is not going to provide sustainable transportation revenues.

    " And the 17.5 cents-per-gallon gasoline tax approved in 1986 has yielded steadily less revenue because of conservation efforts, more fuel-efficient cars and a decline in discretionary driving because of high gasoline prices."

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/nation/2011/01/sources-gov-wants-sales-tax-share-local-roads

    but I think his alternative plan is likely to get voted down and he could have configured it differently so that any region could get the .5% sales tax – by matching it and sweetening the deal more if the locality would agree to take over their local roads.

    That way it provides all localities in Va with the same deal instead of basically proposing to RoVa that they allow NoVa and HR to have an exclusive deal.

    In general… I LIKE the innovative thinking that is going on with the Gov although I worry about his "creativity" with regard to debt and I'm gad that we have a "clown show" in Richmond to not let him take Va where it should not go.

  17. Groveton Avatar

    "How much debt is a safe level of debt for Virginia?".

    Well now, that's the question.

    And that depends on future tax and fee receipts. Which, in turn, depend on the future of economic activity to be taxed and the tax rates.

    It's a complex calculation for an individual company let alone for a state. However, it is the pro-forma analysis which the CBO produces regularly at the national level.

    I am not sure which agency in Virginia is responsible for similar analysis – perhaps JLARC.

    Anyway, whichever agency is meant to perform this analysis needs to perform it. Then, we can have an informed discussion about Gov. McDonnell's debt plan.

  18. here you go Groveton:

    " A Comprehensive Annual Financial Report
    For the Fiscal Year Ended June 30, 2010"

    http://apa.virginia.gov/reports/2010CAFR.pdf

    I think you are the most likely blogger here with the background to be able to scan that document and present us with some findings…. (apologies to Jim).

    how about it?

  19. on the Gov, spending plan that Groveton referenced….

    on page 32

    86416 Statewide Multiple Interstate/Primary
    Downtown Tunnel/Midtown Tunnel/Martin Luther
    King Freeeway Extension, I-95/395 HOV/Bus/HOT
    Lanes, Route 460

    Various Various $1,497,000,000

    that's 1.5 BILLION to include the I-95/I-395 HOT LANES as well as tunnels in HR and US 460…

    these are ALL ..TOLL projects.

    and I'm glad to see that they are part of the Gov's thinking on transportation in Va.

    The Gov is showing the kind of thinking that shows the difference (not 100%) between a total tax&spend approach and a fiscal conservative approach to government.

    Of course the Dems have now applied they own label to his approach… called 'debt & spend' to match up with "tax & spend'.

    Is the Gov really doing a "debt & spend" approach to transportation?

  20. Horse manure.

    The gas tax could easily do the job. It merely has to be set to a suffient rate, and preferably per dollar, not per gallon.

  21. As a company, if you don't have some debt you are not growing as fast as you might. Provided that you can invest your borrowed money in such a way that it returns more than it costs.

    The downside is that you borrow too much, and have a cash flow crunch that threatens the company.

    I don't see a problem with debt, but at the same time, my own debt is very low compared to most people. Maybe that's why I don't see the problem with debt: I never let it become a monkey on my back.

  22. If I need some money, I run an ad and sell more hay.

    The state can't do that. The money the state gets depends on how much hay I sell, so the states money is all second hand money.

  23. Whooped. 1.5 billion in new gas taxes disguised as tolls, and billed to only part of the people who benefit.

  24. what would it have to be set at per dollar (percent?) to generate enough ?

    Do we know?

    How much MORE does NoVa need than they have right now?

  25. What is it now? 17 cents a gallon?

    At $3/gal that's 5%.

    Tolls being proposed are more like $1 per gallon, equivalent.

    And, if you believe in the nexus between land use and transportation, then part of transportation funds should come from real estate tax.

    How much is the tax on cigarettes? Do we think the sin of driving should be taxed any less?

    I think we are approaching this all wrong. Do away with sales and income taxes and just add it all together as a unified tax on transportation.

    You don't want to pay tax? Just stay home and don't order out.

    Really, the gas tax is so much more efficient, we could do away with all other taxes and just have transport taxes.

    I bet 20% on transportation would cover everything.

  26. The vice is really tight, all right.

    US consumer set an all time inflation adjusted record by spending $380.9 billion on retail and food in December.

  27. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Peter said that if I'm going to "clang the alarm" over and over, I "owe some solutions." Otherwise I will have no credibility.

    That is an illogical statement. The truth of what I have to say regarding the coming fiscal hard times is entirely independent of the fact of whether or not I espouse any solutions (which Peter and many others will simply disagree with anyway).

    I can offer solutions out the ying-yang and they will have no bearing whatsoever (except in the unlikely event that they are adopted) upon the course of events.

    As it happens, I do have some remedies, and I may get around to writing about them. In my own time.

  28. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Hydra, as you have said repeatedly, the bust is over. We are re-entering a growth phase of the economy. So what? The federal budget is still way out of whack.

    If you analyze the deficit over the course of the business cycle, you will see that the busts will mean lower revenue and bigger deficits ($1.4 trillion last year and this year) while the expansions will mean higher revenue and lower deficits (never shrinking less than $700 billion by 2014, according to Obama's most recent estimates, which have not been updated for the Bush tax cut extension and increased unemployment-benefits spending). That means we need to close the budget gap by about $1 trillion a year to balance out over the business cycle.

    I would add as a parenthetical aside that while economic growth is recovering, the economy is likely to grow at a slightly slower rate than assumed in the Obama budget forecasts, meaning that, though revenues will increase, they will not yield as much as is required to support the optimistic, only-$700 billion-deficit-in-2014 projection.

    Right now, the Republicans have promised to cut about $100 billion in domestic, discretionary spending. The Democrats have a plan to cut about $100 billion in military spending (which may be included in Obama's budget projections already, I'm not sure). Even if we can get the elephants and donkeys to agree, that gets us to $200 billion in budget cuts… about 20% of the distance.

    The nation simply isn't dealing with fiscal reality, and either are you. Such denialism is rampant. You're not the only one. Peter G. seems to think he can discredit my warnings by the oblique method of saying I offer no solutions and, therefore, have no credibility. That, of course, is a total non-sequitur.

    As long as such denialism is rampant, I will continue to sound the warning. Until people accept the basic proposition that the U.S. is headed to fiscal hell, and will drag Virginia (along with much of the rest of the world) down along with it, no one will be inclined to accept my proposals for closing a $1 trillion budget gap anyway. When people accept the need for radical change, then we can talk solutions.

  29. I tend to agree more with Jim than Hydra or Peter on the deficit problems but as people know by now, I have special contempt for those who promote themselves as budget hawks and fiscal conservatives and can't seem to find their way past 100 billion in "cuts" and who routinely confuse the FICA-funded entitlements with the income-tax-funded General Govt and military which is the 1.5 trillion deficit that has been "out of control" since 2001.

    And it's NOT THAT DIFFICULT if we already have two entirely separate and different deficit commission reports that deal effectively with the problem two different ways….

    .. and the folks who bill themselves as hawks and concerned about "out of control" govt can't bring themselves to support one or the other or to say "I support them but here is my alternative".

    You have two Republicans that have the backbone to do this – Paul Ryan (who thinks entitlements are the problem and not the general govt budget) and Ron Paul – who knows the truth and is not afraid to tell it.

    Even Ronald Reagans supply-side budget director – Dave Stockton has allowed that most of the Republicans are total frauds on the issue.

    WHERE, in heavens name, are the fiscal conservative leaders?

    The one's who are crying "the sky is falling" but are mute on how to deal with it are not leaders in my book.

  30. So Jim.. where are YOUR cuts to achieve budget balance?

    🙂

  31. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Larry, I spell it all out in the book.

    (1) $100 billion — roll back domestic discrectionary spending to pre-TARP, pre-stimulus levels. (I came up with this scheme before the GOP started saying the same thing.)

    (2) $100 billion — end corporate welfare. No more subsidies and hand-outs to corporations for any reason.

    (3) $100 billion — cut military spending and realign foreign policy ambitions to match reduced military capabilities. (Obama is cutting spending without significantly changing our foreign policy).

    (4) $350 billion — adopt the FAIR tax, scrapping personal and corporate income taxes with a national sales tax (with measures to protect households living in poverty). This would raise money even while preserving incentives for productive economic activity.

    (5) Unquantifiable but massive long-term savings — reinvent the health care industry around market-based principles with the goals of increasing prodcutivity and enhancing quality. The changes would take a decade or more to really take effect but they would be massive. If the health care sector could simply increase productivity at the same rate as the rest of the economy, we could eliminate half the deficit problem.

    (6) Put Social Security on an actuarially sound basis by raising the retirement in concert with increasing life expectancy and adopt a different Cost of Living adjustor for calculating S.S. benefits.

    (7) Promote economic growth by rolling back excessive, job-killing regulation and massive misallocation of capital.

  32. would you use the CBO to score the "unquantified" Health care savings or some other entity?

    by the way thanks for the numbers… I need to go back and finish your book (he says with embarrassment – I'd do better if I had an electronic version!)

  33. Andrea Epps Avatar
    Andrea Epps

    OK, here's a question.
    What is one to do if they have…say…$375,000.00 in 10 different municipal bonds in California? One or two have just passed the call date and some won't call for years. Their value is down.
    I would really like your opinions on this, and I will not take any opinions you may care to give as advise.

  34. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Andrea, my advice is worth what you pay for it: Nothing. I am not a bond trader, and I have not examined the specifics of California bonds. But I would say this to anyone who owns such bonds: Be very, very cautious.

    Gov. Jerry Brown may pull off a miracle of budget cutting and tax raising, which will allow California to survive long enough to enjoy one more business cycle of booming revenues. But how much does that tax exemption for California munis get you? A tax break worth a couple of percent annually on your investment? You're willing to put your capital at risk for that? Not me. I'd sell now while the selling was good… and rest a whole lot easier at night.

  35. Recently, some economists have been saying that tax-exempt munis are in the category of moral hazard … and if not mistaken, one of the deficit commissions advocated doing away with that part of the tax code.

  36. Andrea:

    No matter what you investin (or don't invest in) your capital is ALWAYS at risk.

    You cannot eliminate risk, but you can maximize return for whatever level of risk you are taking.

    Government bonds pay less because they offer tax free income. Given that you will be invested in bonds, and the bonds are of equivalent risk,the question is whether the sum of income plus tax protection provided by government bonds is equal to the income minus taxes you would have to pay on some other bonds. Or, income minus taxes minus currency fluctuation in case of foregn bonds.

    Comparing the tax break only to the risk of losing your capital misses the mark.

    Your munis may be upside down on price compared to what you paid for them. So what?

    As long as your interest checks arrive every month and you eventually get your capital back, you got what you paid for. If the municipality defaults, it will default on the ones that are currently due. If your are a few years out, it may not matter, at least not until then.

    The call dates mean little, unless the issuer decides to refinance at new and lower rates. the issuer has theoption to pay off the loans, but not the obligation.

    If they do get called, you will get a premium, or are getting a premium in the form of interest paid. But, you will get your money mback and be stuck with the problem of where to invest it – at the new lower rates.

    You do not say of the municipals are all from one municipality. If they are, then you missed a chance for diversity. Either way, you have to ask what the previous default history was for your municipalit(ies). Probably the default history is zero, but that of course does not mean it could never happen. It also mattters if it is a general obligation bond or a revenue bond, the latter being more risky.

    One reason municipal bonds have fallen is not that the municiplaities are in danger but because the solvency of insurance companies that insure them has come into question, following their losses on credit default swaps.

    Historically, muni bonds have a 0.06% default rate and corporates are 0.52%

    Suppose you have 100k to invest and the muni rate is 3%. What you have is 99.94% chance of earning $3000 = $2982

    Suppose the corporate rate is 6%. that means you have a 99.48% chance of making $6000 = $5986, less whatever tax you pay, say 28% = $4297.

    The difference between those numbers is $1315. If you sell your minis now you will lose money, but as long as you lose less than $1315 by selling them, you would be better off to take the loss and buy AA corporates and pay the tax.

    Plus, you get to write off the loss.

    check with your analyst or do your own,bu this is the general drift of how to decide.

    Of course, if you are so certain the sky is falling that 99.5% isn't good enough, you can put your money in a cash box and be near 100% certain youwill get it back, and with near 100% certaincy youwill be able to buy 3% less with it.

  37. that vice looks just like one I have that was made in China.

  38. Suppose you got some money to invest.

    This implies that you did not need it for anything important anyway.

    Why, then, are you so afraid to lose it?

    Make your investments in small enough chunks that it won't break your heart to lose a chunk, and then make lots of different investments.

    It is unlikely the whole world will go south, despite Bacons prognostications. If the whole world does go south, no investment will be any good, and its not worth worrying about.

    As soon as your investment has doubled your money, pull the initial investment out. Now you have nothing at risk, except money you would never have had with out the investment. Your initial investment is safe, whatever that is, and you have nothing to lose.

  39. what if we took that approach with the Social Security and Medicare trust funds?

  40. what if we took that approach with the Social Security and Medicare trust funds?

    ==================================

    If you did that you would eventually have a fully endowed trust fund with no further investments needed.

    Unfortunately, government is prohibited from investing.

  41. State pension funds are not prohibited from investing and it appears they are the worse for wear…no?

    Aren't we saying that because the stock market did not perform as expected that we need to now either cut benefits or increases taxes to make up for shortfalls?

  42. To be more rigorous about it, you would caclulate your most probable gain and subtract the most probable loss.

    So the example above would be:

    2982 – 60 = $2922 vs

    4297 – 520 = $3777.

  43. Andrea Epps Avatar
    Andrea Epps

    Thanks to you all.
    These bonds are in different localities throughout CA for things like redevelopment authorities etc… My grandmother started this strategy years ago, when she lived in CA and was pulling in 14-16%.My dad didn't want to mess with moving them, but I will.
    I've always understood there is a risk as Ray mentions, but we still pay state taxes because we're in VA.
    Most are down, a couple are not. I'm gonna look for a local financial wizard to discuss selling the bonds that aren't in the red.
    Besides, If any of the bonds are going to be munis, I'd rather they NOT be in CA.
    I agree with ray that the bonds that are at or near maturity are the most vunerable.
    Anyway…Thanks so much for the opinions. I really appreciate them.

  44. If they are in different localities and different maturities, you are probably OK. Might be better if they werent all in California, especially if you are now in VA.

    It doesn't matter if the bond price is down, unless you sell. As long as you are getting your interest, and you get your cpaital back at the end, it does not matter waht anyone else thinks in the meantime.

    other sellers may have simply managed their money so badly that they have to sell, and that drives down the price, even though it has nothing to do with the stability of the project in question.

    I never bought individual bonds, but I did well with triple tax free Virginia bonds in a bond fund.

    Of course with a fund, you have no guarantee becasue you don't own the bond itself, but you own many bonds, spreading the risk.

    I don't see much advantage in staying in the CA bonds, but I would not panic and take a huge loss selling them, either – depending on what you think you can replace them with.

  45. State pension funds are not prohibited from investing

    ================================

    If I'm not mistaken, they are pretty well prohibited from partaking of all but the safest kinds of investments. This guarantees a low return to begin with, and then if the market does badly……

    Presumably, the state would make pension promises based on acheivable goals, and ideally it would keep those promises.

    But if the state makes pension promises based on returns it has never historically achieved, when it borrows or refuses to fund pension investments, then it is facing both a financial and an ethical problem.

    State workers hold those jobs because of the promises made of good, and secure benefits, and they take a salary hit to get them. Maybe they are more risk averse than other people.

    But when government reneges on promises, that ethical problem lands squarely in our lap. It is incumbent on us to make suer the government does not make promises is cannot keep, and that it does not break promises once people have invested their lives in them.

    And that holds whether it is a pension promise or a zoning promise, or a TMDL promise.

  46. Groveton Avatar

    Andrea:

    I invest in municipal bonds. My own money, nothing professional. This is how I think about my investments:

    1. General obligation – I only buy general obligation bonds. These are backed by the taxing authority of the issuer. Other municipal bonds (often called revenue bonds, I believe) are backed by the revenue stream from the asset built with the bond money. My logic is that it's a lot easier for something like a tool road to go bankrupt than a city, county or (especially) a state. Think about what is backing your municipal bonds as part of considering whether or not to sell them.

    2. Maturity – I only buy municipal bonds with a fairly near term maturity. This has nothing to do with the credit risk of the issuer. Rather, I try to avoid holding bonds which could suffer reduced value as interest rates go up. If rates go up and the value of the bond itself goes down, I hold the bond until maturity. Maybe the issuer of your binds will default, maybe not. However, I think interest rates will go up. So, bonds father from maturity will drop in value faster if (when?) interest rates do go up. At least, that's my understanding. I don't really think that bonds closer to maturity are more vulnerable in a default. I assume that a bankruptcy judge / court would have to decide how all creditors are treated in the case of a default. I am not at all sure that the issuer can simply decide who to pay and who not to pay.

    3. Quality – I only buy municipal bonds with good bond ratings. The bond rating companies have gotten a lot of well deserved flak in the last few years. However, I believe they are more diligent now. I also believe that their relative ratings have been trustworthy. You should look at how the debt you are holding is rated. Orange County once went bankrupt even though the rest of California did not.

    Having written all that … I sure don't get the same yields as I would get if I took more risk. My theory is that the bonds in my portfolio are intended to offset the risks I am taking in equities so I stay pretty conservative with the bond ladders.

    There is no simple answer to your question. Talk to the financial whiz. Also ask yourself (and your advisor) where you'll put the money if you do sell the bonds. Equities look very good right now but that can sure change fast.

  47. I agree with groveton, except on the maturity thing. If you were not expecting your money back for ten years it hurts less than if you were expecting it tomorrow.

  48. You could invest in some nice safe real estate. The only charlatans likely to rob you is your government.

  49. What's the safest investment that maintains a positive gain?

    so I'm purposely excluding mattress money…

    Here's the Fed Gov Thrift Fund – that the Fed Govt provides for it's employees to invest in.

    Time Period = last 12 months

    2.85% -Government Securities Fund

    6.17% – Govt/corp mortgage backed Fund

    6.02% – LBA Bond Fund –

    9.95% Barclays Equity Index Fund

    9.94% S&P Fund

    27.79% wilshire 4500 small/mid cap

    1.11% International Stock Index Investment Fund

    http://www.govexec.com/careers/thrift/tspfunds.htm

    here's a more detailed description of the funds.

    http://www.tsptalk.com/funds.html

    http://tsp.peacefulgains.com/TSP-funds/

  50. 1.11% International Stock Index Investment Fund?

    WTF. You would want more than that just to cover currency fluctuations, unless it is dollar denominated. Tell me that is bonds and not equities.

    26% of the money I made last year, was made overseas.

    For Caterpiller, it was more like 78%.

    Im not sure safest with a positive return is a meaningful question: it is always how safe and how much return, over what time period, and against what level of inflation?

    I've got some equities that make 35% one year and lose 15% the next. If the ride doesn't make you carsick, you can average 20%.

  51. One year of wilshire small/mid cap is worth ten years of government securities.

    You could be in and out of wilshire in a year and have all your money now, istead of ten years from now.

    What do you call safe?

  52. not sure what was going on with the International Index funds.. but the rest of the world is in recession also.

    If we are getting to the end of our fiscal rope – how come the govt securities are STILL considered the LEAST RISKY of the choices with very low returns?

  53. how come the govt securities are STILL considered the LEAST RISKY

    ================================

    A business can go broke and disappear.

    A government goes broke and reorganizes. You will get you rmoney, een if they have to print it.

  54. So what's all this worry about the Fed, State and local Govts going bankrupt?

    The Feds can print more money and the State/Local cannot?

    but Bacon is in a lather about the Feds money not being worth anything.. right?

  55. If we are trading in Wampum, the people that own the means of production will still have more wampum than those that do not.

    If the entire world went bankrupt tomorrow, most of it would be back in business, doing SOMETHING, on monday.

    Speculators would have a field day.

  56. I wonder waht th fiscal conservatives will do when they find out how expensive it is to cut government costs.

  57. we already know the answer – at least since 2001 when the "fiscal conservatives" killed PAYGO, paid for two wars off budget, gave tax cuts and provided subsidized prescription drugs…

    … all the while humming that fabulous Dick Cheney tune: "Deficits don't Matter".

    and now here we are at 2011 and the folks who claim to be fiscal conservatives tell us that the general govt budget deficit is caused by FICA-funded entitlements.

  58. New Jersey is still one of the richest states.

  59. On housing affordability:

    "This is illustrated by an analysis of housing costs, using the Median Multiple, for more than 500 United States metropolitan areas. Between 2000 and 2009, the more unaffordable metropolitan areas lost 9.6 percent of their residents (4.7 million) by domestic migration to other areas, nearly 10 percent of their 2000 population. By contrast, the less expensive metropolitan areas gained 4.2 million domestic migrants (2.3 percent of their population). Of course the migration of households between metropolitan areas is the result of a number of factors. But the unprecedented housing affordability differences that have developed in US metropolitan areas are strongly associated with domestic migration trends. All things being equal, households will be drawn to less costly metropolitan areas and away from more costly metropolitan areas, as they seek to enhance their overall standard of living."

    From Carp Diem

    ================================

    Well, that explains Fauquier county policy. They do not want people there, or only wealthy ones, so they make it as expensive as possible.

  60. What contributes to high or low housing affordability? Land use regulation is one factor, and as expected, the more (less) restrictive the land use regulation, the higher (lower) the housing affordability.

  61. there is an easy way to prove this.

    Rank the cities according to the affordable housing index and compare it to the population and job growth.

  62. Already been done.

    New York and California are losing jobs and poplulation and Houston and other affordable areas are growing.

  63. "The extent to which geographic regulatory restrictions can drive up prices is illustrated by the differences between the values of undeveloped lands just a few
    steps from each other, but across the urban growth boundary. In Portland and Auckland, New Zealand, virtually adjoining undeveloped lands value differences
    have been estimated at 10 times or more (Mildner 2009, 2025 Task Force 2009).

    My own more recent review on the western Portland suburbs found a differential of 11 times virtually across the road at the urban growth boundary (Cox 2010).
    Without an urban growth boundary, it would be expected that land on both sides of an urban growth boundary would have similar values. Research in the London
    area indicates that this difference can be as much as 500 times (Leunig 2007)."

    Constraints on Housing Supply: Natural and Regulatory by wendell Cox

    Econ Journal Watch

  64. Andrea Epps Avatar
    Andrea Epps

    I honestly appreciate all of your thoughts on this subject. I have to explain it to my mother, and this discussion will really help. Thanks!

    Hydra has a solid point about land costs and urban growth boundary's. That is one of the many different conversations being held all over Chesterfield at the moment. We'll see what the final land use plan looks like when it's been adopted.
    Government regulatory charges have a huge impact also. Look at the cash proffers. I think local governments should not be permitted to have proffer amounts that vary so much within the same MSA, but who am I to judge.

  65. New York State Seizes Finances of Nassau County

    Todays New York times.

  66. Bacon ought to LOVE THIS:

    " Nassau’s tax receipts are the envy of many worse-off municipalities: its malls and busy retail districts, a short drive from New York City, help generate about $1 billion in sales taxes a year, and its aging bedroom communities add about $800 million in county property taxes.

    But the county has resisted cuts in services, and its current leaders have been just as adamant about not raising taxes."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/nyregion/27nassau.html?_r=1&hpw

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