Understaffed Police Departments, Skyrocketing Gun Violence and “Stop and Frisk”
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59 responses to “Understaffed Police Departments, Skyrocketing Gun Violence and “Stop and Frisk””
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I am good with Stop and Frisk as a means of getting guns off the street. The minute racial profiling is involved, it must be terminated. That being said, if we are going to empower law enforcement with the ability to push the Constitutional envelope because gun proliferation is such a problem, can we not do something to stem the flow of guns purchased in areas with relaxed regulations and enforcement into these areas?
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If a line is crossed in stop and frisk, the courts will stop it, as they have in the past.
The way to deal with the interstate flow of guns is in the transportation step.
Interstate cooperation is important in that step. Every state, city and many counties have joint federal/state/local counterterrorism task forces. Nothing stops them from helping in the matter of interstate flow of guns or shell buyers.
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I really don’t think that Georgia is at all interested in helping to stem the flow of guns up the Iron Pipeline.
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Kind of a gratuitous comment. Actually, Virginia is a prime source of guns for the Northeast.
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I’m not surprised…
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It could start with Hunter Biden and his illegal gun purchase and disposal!… naw… it’ll never happen
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It could start with Hunter Biden and his illegal gun purchase and disposal!… naw… it’ll never happen
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If a line is crossed in stop and frisk, the courts will stop it, as they have in the past.
The way to deal with the interstate flow of guns is in the transportation step.
Interstate cooperation is important in that step. Every state, city and many counties have joint federal/state/local counterterrorism task forces. Nothing stops them from helping in the matter of interstate flow of guns or shell buyers.
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“I suspect that the Virginian Pilot considers it off limits to even bring up.”
I suspect you’re right. The Pilot’s staff probably knows its target audience well, and doesn’t want to irritate it.
“hold, prosecute and imprison the gun toting criminals they arrest.”
A friend of mine, a few years back, was telling me about how the City of Richmond cut gun crime: they got the feds to prosecute them. I asked why the city or state couldn’t prosecute gun criminals. My friend’s reply” “Thank you.” I.e., the feds had to prosecute gun criminals, because the city or state wouldn’t.
At some point, you have to wonder if a community is OK if some of its citizens get shot. Which makes you wonder about that community.
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Project Exile. The legal mechanisms are still in place if the City of Richmond wished to reinvigorate the project.
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This reminds me of the mandatory drug testing the Army implemented while I was on active duty. It helped catch drug users—but it also helped impressionable soldiers resist peer pressure to “fit in” and start taking drugs. The tests were random, so no one knew who would be tested. Soldiers could then argue that they couldn’t risk jail or a dishonorable discharge by taking drugs. A soldier’s desire to “fit in” and “be cool” was outweighed by his desire to stay out of the brig.
If we have situations where young people are pressured to join gangs, and pressured to carry firearms as part of their gang duties, a polite-but-comprehensive stop and frisk policy could help young people resist pressure to carry firearms.
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Maybe. In Fairfax County violent crime is rare. However, when there are violent crimes those crimes are almost always committed in certain parts of the county. Often along the Rt 1 corridor where I grew up. There are nearly no preventable violent crimes where I now live – McLean / Great Falls.
Random drug testing in the Army was … well, random.
Should the Fairfax County police stop and frisk me in order to maintain some sense of randomness? Should they stop and frisk as many people in low crime areas as in high crime areas?
If I were a policeman I think I’d hate this idea. It seems destined to create more animosity toward the police.
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People really want boundaries and rules. Even the bad guys so they know not to draw attention to themselves. We had the same deal in schools once. Great analogy and truthfully what the public wants.
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Law abiding citizens know that the police force is called the Thin Blue Line for a very good reason. They are the mid line of defense between criminals/anarchists and the peaceful people, the first line being a proper upbringing/strong moral code, the last line being the right of self defense and a well armed populace.
I am the son of a Fireman and therefore a nephew to the Blue, if you will, the defund the police movement along with the other anarchic developments over the past 2 years are from a coordinated effort to destabilize the US and institute a super authority over the world. Whether you label it Communism, Green Governance or Agenda 2030 it is coming for your liberty and one of the legs of the stool is a national/global police force to enforce the top down dictates. Look out as lawlessness and violence becomes more widespread for calls for a national authority to enforce peace.
It may be somewhat down the road still but who would have thought 20 years ago that somethings as ludicrous as The Green New Deal, UBI and rationing electricity would be seriously discussed in America. -
Stop and frisk was found unconstitutional in New York by a court, and De Blasio is opposed to it. What are you going to propose next for Virginia, back to slave patrols? Get real. We need gun control.
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Interesting you bring up slave patrols. After Nat Turner’s Aug 21, 1831 slave rebellion, the following spring the General Assembly enacted strict Slave Code laws. One called for each locality to establish a slave patrol to patrol roads, search slave quarters, and disperse all slave gatherings. No slave revolts after 1832. I certainly don’t want to see that again. As for gun control, good luck with that. 357,000 registered gun owners in Virginia in 2017. Way more than that now given the past 2 years.
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I agree there are just too many guns out there. People are making big money off this racket.
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Making big money off what “racket”?
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Since gun registration is not required in Virginia, what do you mean by “registered gun owners”? Sure you referring to concealed handgun permit holders?
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Stop and frisk is the enforcement of gun control. We need both stricter gun laws and strong enforcement.
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Um, no. There are other much better ways to enforce gun laws.
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Such as…?? I am not saying there isn’t, I’m interested in those better ways. I think Stop & Frisk (for all its negatives) has proven pretty effective.
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The NYPD’s use of stop and frisk was found unconstitutional, not the policy itself. NYPD corrected the error and still employs it but far less often because they have taken cops off the streets.
Use correct information.
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Don’t tell me. I saw it on the streets. It was day and night compared to today. Stop and frisk is a racist abuse, and was found to be so by a judge who followed the issue for literally years.
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what about all the lives NOT taken by those firearms taken off the street?
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The city has not “taken” cops off the street. There have been a large number of retirements in recent months, which has resulted in fewer officers active in the field. That is a far cry from “taking them off the street.” In fact, the mayor has proposed increases to the police budget. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-06/new-york-city-s-police-budget-is-increasing-again
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Actually, six minority police chiefs left their positions because of the impact BLM had on city councils
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Dick, Mayor DeBlasio reduced the NYPD operating budget by a billion dollars and cancelled an entire recruit class.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/de-blasio-agrees-to-cut-nypd-funding-by-1-billion-11593472369
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I already have gun control, I do not need your version of it.
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Slave patrols? Anything else appropriate to offer?
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Slave patrols? Anything else appropriate to offer?
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On its face, “sttop and frisk” sounds reasonable. However, experience has shown that it can quickly lead to abuse. https://www2.nycbar.org/pdf/report/uploads/20072495-StopFriskReport.pdf
Furthermore, there are a number of studies that indicate that the procedure is not that effective in preventing or deterring crime.
https://crim.sas.upenn.edu/fact-check/does-stop-and-frisk-reduce-crime
However, many studies, including the one cited above, do indicate that increasing police presence in high crime areas does help.
Finally, D.J. Rippert is correct. Some of those same studies have shown that stop and frisk erodes trust between the community and police. It would be better to invest in a good community policing program.
Besides, what is the point of stop and frisk in Virginia? Anyone can legally carry a gun on his hip in broad daylight or legally carry around a high powered automatic weapon for that matter.
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Some reasons. The person stopped better have a concealed carry permit if the weapon is concealed. Convicted felons cannot carry them without going back to jail. Courts can make a condition of bail that those out on bail cannot carry. The guns themselves often have filed off serial numbers, also illegal. Guns with serial numbers can be traced to previous crimes. If the person has been convicted of a misdemeanor involving domestic violence, it is a federal crime for him to carry a firearm. Filing a report of the stop will list the person as armed regardless of his right to carry. Useful if a policeman stops his car.
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“a high powered automatic weapon for that matter” THAT’S FUNNY.
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I do not find the possibility amusing. During the protest against tougher gun laws in Virginia, there were folks openly carrying semi-automatic weapons on the streets of Richmond last year. https://www.npr.org/2020/01/20/797895183/richmond-gun-rally-thousands-of-gun-owners-converge-on-virginia-capitol-on-mlk-d
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What’s funny is that automatic firearms are not used by criminals. To own one takes a BATF background check and an annual tax of $200. Also – no legally owned automatic firearm has EVER been used in the commission of crime since the law was passed in the 1930s. Finally, please define ‘high powered’? Such monikers indicates a lack of firearms knowledge.
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…but the movies show criminals using automatic firearms all the time???
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I stand corrected.. I should have referenced Fast and Furious and The Expendables like Wikipedia does.
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Remember, if it’s in the movies or on TV, it must be true! It’s illegal to lie on movies and TV!
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You are correct–I do not have a lot of knowledge about firearms. I have fired a M-16 and they can be put on automatic fire. An AK-47, while semi-automatic, can fire 40 rounds per minute, with bursts of 100 rounds a minute. In my book, it is automatic when I can fire up to 40 rounds per minute without having to pull the trigger 40 times.
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You are wrong. Semi-automatic means pulling the trigger fires a single round, then the round is extracted from the chamber and the next round is loaded.
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A real AK-47 is select fire (semi-auto or full auto).
Civilian versions are semi-auto only. However, a shooter who fires 100 rounds from a semi-automatic rifle in one minute is going to have a very tired finger, because 100 rounds fired = 100 trigger pulls.
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You really do need to learn grammar and the definition of words…. there is a BIG difference between ‘automatic’ and ‘semi-automatic. That’s like calling a duck a goose.
Also — those were ‘firearms’ , not weapons in Richmond…. again a big difference!
Finally— all those firearms… and not a single killing… unlike Chicago EVERY WEEKEND
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“Also — those were ‘firearms’ , not weapons in Richmond…. again a big difference!”
Were those firearms not being carried as a form of personal protection (in part at least)? If so, weapon is an apt description. Not sure what to call them when they are used as a phallic symbol as in Richmond.
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Some reasons. The person stopped better have a concealed carry permit if the weapon is concealed. Convicted felons cannot carry them without going back to jail. Courts can make a condition of bail that those out on bail cannot carry. The guns themselves often have filed off serial numbers, also illegal. Guns with serial numbers can be traced to previous crimes. If the person has been convicted of a misdemeanor involving domestic violence, it is a federal crime for him to carry a firearm. Filing a report of the stop will list the person as armed regardless of his right to carry. Useful if a policeman stops his car.
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If a cop sees a person openly carrying a firearm, how is he to know if that person is a convicted felon? Or if that person is on probation supervision and not allowed to have firearm? How is he to know if the gun has had its serial number filed off? The more I think about it, having stop and frisk in Virginia might be an incentive for more people to openly carry their weapons. Maybe that would be a good thing. Somehow, I cannot think it would be.
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You are really reaching. Most of the shooters we are talking about are young. Some very young gang members – or kids afraid of gang members.
A 13 year old strapped with a visible firearm? Open carry of a handgun without a permit is illegal in Virginia until age 18.
A 24 year old gang banger carrying one? Nothing to see here for the police?
Come on, Dick, that can’t be it. What is your real issue?
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I cannot find the statute that says that open carry by someone under 18 is illegal. The only one that I can find dealing with an age limit makes it a misdemeanor to knowingly allow a child under 12 to use a firearm.
I think it is a legitimate concern that an aggressive stop and frisk policy could lead to young men swaggering down the street openly carrying firearms.
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See 18 USC § 922(x)(2) below.
The full set of federal laws that apply:
SELL, DELIVER OR TRANSFER FIREARM OR AMMUNITION TO A JUVENILE:
A. 18 USC § 922(x)(1). Punishable by up to 1 year imprisonment unless transferor had reason to believe juvenile would commit crime of violence with gun or ammunition, then up to 10 years imprisonment. May not sell, deliver or transfer a handgun or handgun-only ammunition to a person who is under age 18;B. 18 USC § 922(x)(2). A person under age 18 may not possess a handgun or handgun-only ammunition; (NOTE: Certain exceptions apply to A & B, such as where juvenile possesses written permission of a parent.);
C. 18 USC § 922(b). Punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment. A firearms licensee may not sell any gun or ammunition to anyone under the age of 18 and may not sell a handgun or handgun ammunition to a person under the age of 21.
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Thanks. I was unaware of the federal law. Of course, the regular patrol cops in Richmond, Norfolk, etc. are not in the habit of enforcing federal law. I am not sure if they have the authority to do so.
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Code of Virginia § 18.2-308.7. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty.
It shall be unlawful for any person under 18 years of age to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm anywhere in the Commonwealth.…
A violation of this section shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor.
There are certain exceptions: on family owned property, when accompanied by an adult on way to/from shooting range (unloaded), to and from hunting (unloaded), etc., but none of these exceptions permit a person under 18 to open carry (or concealed carry) a loaded handgun.
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https://vcdl.org/page/virginia-carry-information
Open carry is prohibited:
Cities of:
Alexandria
Chesapeake
Fairfax
Falls Church
Newport News
Norfolk
Richmond
Virginia Beach
Counties of:
Arlington
Fairfax
Henrico
Loudoun
Prince William
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Those are not general prohibitions. The details provide the specific locations in which open carry is prohibited. For most, if not all, here is the restriction: “all carry (open and concealed with CHP) prohibited in local government
buildings, parks, community and recreation centers, and permitted events
and adjacent streets.”-
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Again, not general prohibition.
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“…legally carry around a high powered automatic weapon for that matter.”
There are very few people who can legally carry around an automatic weapon. Just owning one requires a very expensive license (they call it a tax) and registration with the federal government, which is only approved after a lot of paperwork and a much more extensive background check than is required to purchase a standard firearm. Owners are also subject to rules regarding transporting the weapon across state lines. A separate permit (tax) is required for each and every automatic weapon one wishes to purchase.
PS – In Virginia, automatic weapons must also be registered with the State Police.
Law enforcement needs to focus on bad people, how they got that way, and why they are not staying off the streets even after they get arrested for other crimes.
Focusing on guns means you’re on the wrong path with the very first step.
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It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.
[…] was extensive commentary on my post yesterday that recommended expanded use of stop and frisk in an attempt to reduce gun […]
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