When Jay Jones texted his hideous thoughts three years ago, he reflected a widespread enchantment with political violence, says John Reid, Republican candidate for lieutenant governor. Does anyone really think Jones has changed his mind?

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Jim Bacon: Good morning, everybody. I’m Jim Bacon, and this is the Oinkonomics podcast. My interview today is with a very special guest, John Reid, Republican candidate for Lieutenant Governor. In a previous life, John hosted Richmond’s top talk show on WRVA radio and brought me on as a regular guest. I never imagined I’d be interviewing him. Aha! the worm has turned! I’m the one asking the questions today. Welcome to Oinkonomics, John.

John Reid: Thank you. I appreciate it. I’m very curious as to how this will go, Jim.

Bacon: There’s so many things we could talk about, but the top-of-mind story for absolutely everyone concerns the text messages that Attorney General candidate Jay Jones sent in 2022 to Republican delegate Carrie Coiner. “Three people, two bullets,” Jones said. “Gilbert, Hitler, and Pol Pot. Gilbert gets bullets to the head.” He went on to describe Gilbert as “evil,” then referring to his young sons, Jones said the House Minority Leader was raising “two little fascists.” And then he wished Gilbert’s wife, Jennifer, could watch them die so, by feeling others’ pain, she could ”move” on policy.

It’s only fair to note that Jones has since apologized for the text, declaring that he was, quote, “embarrassed, ashamed, and sorry.” However, it’s not clear exactly what he was ashamed of. The media has not pressed for details.

I’d like to dissect the texts on three levels. First, what do they tell us about Jay Jones? Second, what does the response of Virginia Democrats, especially your opponent, Ghazala Hashmi, tell us about them? And third, in light of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, what do the Jones texts and responses to them tell us about the deranged state of mind in a segment of America’s left?

So, let’s start with Jones himself. The spin from those who wish the whole thing would go away is to say, they find his words deplorable, but with the two bullets thing, he was just recycling an old joke. The joke fell badly flat, but it was just a joke. He didn’t mean to be taken literally. He was a young man and immature. He had a terrible lapse in judgment in saying what he said, but he’s really a good person deep down inside. So, John, what do you say to that?

Reid: Yeah, it really doesn’t matter what context it was in. I can’t imagine that anybody would accept someone in a contemporary sense musing about killing their political opponent and their political opponent’s family. When this first happened, I was kind of gigged by people. Why aren’t you talking about it? And I wanted to stop and make sure it was true. Because I know what it’s like for people to lie about me, and I’m not going to do that to somebody else, even the Democrat that I have some reason to be running against. I wanted to make sure it was true. So, I paused and we then we found out that it was true and he admitted it was true.

And, so, this isn’t just a momentary lapse of judgment. This is a really sick situation, and I think it’s indicative of the position that the Democrat Party in Virginia and nationally has, which is utilizing violence is acceptable to them if it silences their opposition and if it ultimately gains them political power. And I just don’t think Virginians are going to go along with that. And I’m not. And I don’t think they should go along with it.

Bacon: The two-bullets-to-the-head quote and the implicit threat of violence there has gotten the most attention, understandably. But to me, what was the most revealing was calling Gilbert’s two young sons little fascists.

Reid: Yeah, yeah.

Bacon: I mean, little boys, calling them fascists. It’s the same mindset of those who think of us normies as fascists, as an evil to be expunged. I can’t imagine that Jones literally thought Gilbert deserved to get two bullets to the head, but I do find it believable that he views Jones as evil. And I doubt that assessment has changed.

Reid: I don’t think it’s changed either. I think he just got caught. And I also think that if we were to take everybody’s phone at the Capitol, you would find that there are a lot of Democrats who were talking violently with trash like that. And that’s really unfortunate.

Now, I’m making that statement not just to impugn a political opponent. It’s because I watched the violence in Richmond in 2020 and the Democrats refused to do anything about it when police were being pelted with balloons filled with feces and urine. When the cops went into their precinct and were barricaded inside and the building was set on fire when elderly people were attacked outside of their homes in Richmond, this is nothing new. What’s new is that somebody who’s running for statewide office got caught advocating the violence. And what’s shocking is that the leaders of the modern Democrat Party in Virginia and nationally don’t seem to find this abhorrent enough to separate themselves from Jay Jones.

I would ask you what exactly would be a disqualifying statement from a Democrat candidate? I’m a I’m pretty sure that if you found text messages where someone was using the N word or racially impugning someone, ridiculing them, putting them down, that the Democrats would say that that was a violation of civility to the degree that that person should be removed. And I wouldn’t probably argue with that. So why is it that? Advocating the death of your political opponent isn’t considered to cross the line. It’s because they actually want the violence. They’re using the violence to gain political power. That’s disgusting. I’ve been calling out it out for a long time, and it’s time for all of us to say, no, we need leaders who will draw a clear line and not accept the violence anymore.

Bacon: You mentioned if someone had used the N word,the response would be very different. All I have to do is look back to 2019 when Ralph Northam was caught in a photograph of him wearing blackface some 35 years previously. And there were widespread calls in Democratic Party for him to step down.

Reid: My opponent Ghazala Hashmi. She didn’t give Ralph Northam the benefit of the doubt. She didn’t give the Black Lieutenant Governor, Democrat Justin Fairfax, when he was accused of sexual impropriety, sexual assault. I would have thought that a woman like Ghazala Hashmi, my opponent for lieutenant governor, would have at least paused and said, now wait a minute. We can’t go and start pushing people out of office and demanding that they leave simply for political reasons unless we can verify this is true. But no, she jumped up and down just like the rest of the Democrats.

They use these allegations and they use the violence. They use the hostility to gain political power and to push people out. Democrats who at least have some grounding, basic civility and decency, would have a problem with that and would say no, no more lying, no more making things up, no more trying to harm people, innocent people to to gain political power. I’m tired of it. And it’s one reason that this has been a miserable experience running for office. But I’m even more determined to try to win now to try to bring back some decency in this whole discussion.

Bacon: Speaking of your opponent’s reaction to the Ralph Northam thing, this is what she had to say about Jay. She said, quote, “I spoke frankly with Jay about my disgust with what he had said and texted. I made clear to Jay that he must take full responsibility for his words.” Well, I kind of wonder what does “take full responsibility” even mean?

Reid: I think it is shocking. Does that just mean a little apology? Does that mean going on a couple of radio stations or putting out a couple of press releases? I don’t know how you walk this back because it’s so damning. And it it’s the kind of thing that if you were a police officer and you were applying for a job at the state police. and someone showed social media that said that you had actually advocated the harm of another individual, the murder of another individual and their family, does anybody think you would get that police officer’s job? No, you wouldn’t. If you were a prosecutor and you had spoken this way, there would be dramatic problems. I even think [it’s a] problem [if] attorney was speaking this way. So why is the Democrat Party so willing to give him a pass with just some sort of cursory press release apology? It’s really awful.

Bacon: Obviously they’re caught between a rock and a hard place. They can’t possibly condone what he’s doing or what he said, but they don’t want to hand the election over to Jason Miyares. That’s pretty clearly the problem they’ve got. And voters just got to take that into account.

So, moving on from what the Democratic candidates are saying, as I’ve been thinking about it, I guess the reason it resonated so much with me was that it came so closely in the aftermath of the Charlie Kirk assassination. Jones’s remarks were made back in 2022, so you can’t say that he contributed directly or indirectly to the rhetorical excesses that led up to the Charlie Kirk assassination. Three years ago was a fairly long time ago. But to me, it’s indicative of, I guess, a mindset. The assassination was horrifying in that it revealed that a significant swath of the electorate celebrated Kirk’s death on the grounds that he was a fascist. And evil. And had it coming. And that’s exactly the same rhetoric and vocabulary that that Jones was using. Again, I don’t hold him personally responsible in any way, but it’s this mindset that’s out there. I wasn’t aware of it back in 2022, but there he was saying this stuff.

Reid: Those were the kinds of things that Democrats were saying regularly. We watched in 2020 when everyone excused bad behavior. They lied and said, oh, these were mostly peaceful protests. Well, they weren’t peaceful protests. We know that those of us who lived in Richmond, VA, exactly what happened. You had buildings set on fire. You had innocent people attacked. You had the police attacked. Anybody who had any sense wouldn’t have gone downtown after dark. You know, even on Monument Avenue, which has some of the most expensive houses in Richmond, you wouldn’t go there because the mob was allowed to ride roughshod over people and no one wanted to call it out. And the police held back.

This was Democrat leadership. This was a Democrat governor of Virginia, a Democrat mayor of the city of Richmond, a largely Democrat city council, a Democrat prosecutor who refused to lock people up. There were libraries firebombed. and no one has ever been arrested or prosecuted for those crimes. The Democrats have made it very clear to their constituents, if you’re angry about something, we’ll allow you to harm other people and to destroy property. There’s no commitment to law and order, and it’s time for us to say no to that. And this election gives decent people the opportunity to say no.

Bacon: So, what are you hearing on the campaign trail? Obviously, the Republicans are going to jump all over this. I mean, they’d be crazy not to. It’s a horrifying sentiment but Democrats are saying, no, of course we don’t approve this language. But what are you hearing?

Reid: Everybody’s seeing it clearly. If you didn’t approve of the language, then you would cut your losses with Jay Jones. Ghazala Hashmi thinks because she won’t answer any questions about anything. She refuses to debate. She refuses press interviews. I’m the only person out there taking press interviews on a regular basis with no rules attached. Anybody can ask me whatever they want. They generally ask me pretty hostile questions and I still answer them because I think that’s what you should do.

[Garbled} They are for the violence. They won’t do anything to stop it when it’s happening. And then when they get caught during election season, they circle the wagons and protect their own guy. And I’ve heard from a lot of people, including some who might be questionable about whether they vote Republican, they they’re done with that. This is not OK. Virginians aren’t putting up with it.

Bacon: What I was really driving at was what is the electorate saying? You’re out there meeting a lot of people.

Reid: Well, I’ve seen a lot of people in the last couple of weeks who are Democrats or independents, not just Republicans. Earlier in the campaign, you go to Republican events and speak to Republican audience. But this day, everyone is focused on these campaigns. And I have people who’ve expressed concern about Jay Jones. I think that’s why Jason Miyares is now, based on the polling data we’ve seen, ahead of Jay Jones.

But it’s not just Jay Jones. Ghazala Hashmi may not comment about this, but she has marched with the Hamas protesters. Well, pardon me, I lived in the Middle East. I’m very familiar with Hamas and the conflict, Israel and Palestine. I know all the details of that. I’ve lived it while I was living over there. To go march with people who are advocating for the Hamas government of Palestine is abhorrent. And it’s another example of how someone like Ghazala Hashmi is interested in using violence to achieve their political goals. They admire that from afar when it happens overseas. And I just think it’s time for us to say, if that’s a part of your M.O., if that’s a part of the way you perceive appropriate political engagement, you shouldn’t be in elective office in Virginia. No.

Bacon: We’ve talked a lot about Jay Jones and violence. Let’s talk about something else. What is at the top of your list of things that you think people are responding to and concerned about?

Reid: Well, the economy is always the number one or number two issue, and it’s probably the most important issue to make sure that Virginians have jobs. And, you know, if the Democrats win this year, we will lose the right to work in Virginia. You will have Virginia workers forced into unions. All it would take is a majority vote of the employees, and you’ll have no choice. If you want to keep your job, you’ll have to join the union. You will be forced to take money out of every paycheck and give money to the Union boss from New Jersey who, guess what, will give that money back to the Democrat Party. It’s a total scam and it doesn’t help the workers. And the Democrats have doubled or tripled down on it, and I think That is a real problem going forward.

The other thing that the Democrats have talked about is this idea that probably sounds good if you’re economically illiterate of raising the minimum wage to $20 an hour. The problem is if you do that, a lot of businesses will close their doors and a lot of people will lose their jobs. Your hours will be cut, the benefits will be cut. This is a problem. You’re having people who are social justice warriors, who know nothing about economics and who know nothing about business, proposing ideas that will actually harm Virginia workers. Now, I’ve been a business person overseas and in Washington. I have been the communications director for the United States Chamber of Commerce, the largest business federation in the world. And I’m here to tell you that every proposal that Gazala Hashmi, Abigail Spanberger, and the Democrats are proposing actually hurts Virginia’s competitive situation against Tennessee and North Carolina and South Carolina.

This is a hyper competitive situation trying to bring jobs here and businesses here. Even Democrats like Tim Kaine and Mark Warner used to say, no, we can’t touch right-to-work because it’s the secret that allows Virginia to bring jobs. Now they’ve abandoned that because they’re being pressured by the unions. And that’s one thing I’m talking about frequently hoping that working men and women who used to believe that the Democrat Party cared about them will recognize they don’t care about you. They care about the unions. Stick with someone like me who’s going to advocate for you to increase your opportunities, increase your paycheck because there are more jobs out there and these business people will have to compete to keep you in a job instead of just throw you away. That’s the problem.

Bacon: Well, that sounds like the old. Ronald Reagan type of conservatism, maybe George Allen kind of conservatism, that was prevalent a long time ago. Of course, the world has gotten a lot crazier since those days and we have our culture wars. Have you been talking much about, like Winston Sears has been, about biological boys in the girls’ bathroom and things like that?

Reid: If you’ve got kid in public school system right now and especially if you have a daughter, I think there are a lot of parents who are scared to speak up, but they’ll tell me they do not want boys in the girls’ locker room. If you’ve got a daughter who’s exceptionally good at volleyball or basketball or swimming or any of the other sports. — my sister was a high school athlete who was pretty talented, who then went on to be a college athlete — you have the very real possibility that your young daughter will lose out on scholarship opportunities, the opportunities to compete and be successful. They’ll lose out on victories because of this really ridiculous idea that we’re going to take boys who are confused for attention and we’re going to allow them to compete against women. Virginia parents are not on board with that.

The Democrats, for some reason, don’t seem to have the wherewithal to separate themselves out from those bad judgments. I’m making it very clear, even as a gay candidate, and I tell people it’s not the number one thing I talk about, but it’s an important thing for you to be aware of. And I hope it won’t make people not vote for me. I don’t expect you to vote for me that way, but I know what I’m talking about. This is insanity. It’s unfair to women, real women, biological girls and women. And I’m going to be one of the leading voices to stand up against this craziness. And I think parents are going to appreciate that.

Bacon: John, I didn’t want to bring up the fact that you’re a gay candidate because you and I have talked about that, and I’ve written about that in the past. And hopefully it’s something that people have kind of gotten over. I hope so.

Reid: Yeah, I hope so. I’m not scared of it. If somebody wants to talk to me about it, I’ve been very upfront and open about it. Even really conservative voters have said, what we care about is having someone who’s straight up honest with us, who will be bold and stand up and fight for our principles. And that’s me. That’s who you’re looking at. That’s John Reid.

Bacon: That is exactly who you are, John. You’ve always let it out and said it like it is. So, that wraps it up. I really appreciate your time and hope your meeting in Harrisonburg goes well.

Reid: Thank you. I’m all over the state between now and Election Day, and I appreciate everyone at least giving me a fair shot as you make up your mind who you’re going to vote for. I promise I’ll do the very best job I can. I’ll be reasonable. responsible, respectful, even to people who disagree with me. And most importantly, I will try very diligently to be fair as Lieutenant Governor.