The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of UVa’s Transgender Movement

by James A. Bacon

I learned a lot about transgender activists and advocates at the Abigail Shrier event at the University of Virginia last night. Some are bitter, angry people who hurl non-stop invective. Some are close-minded but willing to engage in rational conversation. But at least one is courteous, friendly and willing to engage in a thoughtful, one-on-one exchange. I look forward to having lunch with her next week.

Shrier, the author of “”Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters,” was herself polite, charming and attentive. Even as more than 100 protesters were chanting and demonstrating outside Minor Hall, she remained unflappable inside the auditorium under questioning that ranged from skeptical to hostile.

Shrier is the object of venom in the transgender community because her book dared to ask questions that many do not want to be asked. While acknowledging the gender dysphoria is real and those who suffer from it deserve compassion, she argues that much of the transgender “craze” is a social contagion mainly affecting teenage girls, that “affirmative” treatment such as testosterone shots and top surgery are fraught with ill-understood risks and dangers, and that a legion of affirming educators, counselors, and even medical doctors have abandoned science in favor of ideology. She elaborated on those themes in a Q&A session hosted by the Jefferson Council in partnership with the Young Americans for Freedom and the Common Sense Society.

The mission of the Jefferson Council is to encourage civil dialogue and debate, so we were happy to let the audience participate. Interlocutors raised legitimate questions about Shrier’s methodology as a journalist and her ability as a non-scientist to interpret scientific studies. They cited academic studies supporting their positions and asked her to respond. She answered every question forthrightly, citing her own sources and studies. If you were inclined to oppose her to begin with, you likely would not have found her persuasive. If you were inclined to agree with her — as most of the audience was — you likely would have been impressed. No minds were changed, but at least the exchange was civil and the underlying supposition was that facts matter.

The demonstrators outside were a different story. They had no interest in the facts. Without benefit of knowing anything about Shrier other than what they had heard from their own tendentious sources, they described her as a bigot and hater, and they engaged in fact-free, intellect-free chants. The demonstrators live in a bubble in which no one has ever de-transitioned, in which no one has ever regretted life-altering hormone treatment and surgery, and in which ideology has never infected scientific inquiry. They live in a world in which the only conceivable reason that anyone would question their orthodoxy is that they are consumed with hatred.

Ironically, the evidence would suggest that many of the demonstrators are themselves consumed with anger and hate. They taunted and castigated anyone who had the temerity to run the gauntlet past the demonstration to attend the event.

A few demonstrators lingered by the entrance after the main rally had dissipated. As two companions and I walked from Minor Hall to the parking deck, a bedraggled group of seven or eight followed us, crying shame, shame! How could we live with ourselves? We were terrible people — our grandchildren would disown us! We were not welcome on the Grounds, we should go home, and we never come back! Quickly perceiving that there was nothing to be gained by responding to their invective, we did our best not to engage them. The demonstrators had other ideas. A couple of them had their smart phones out as they tagged behind us all the way to the parking deck, presumably ready to record any interactions. One protester accused one of us of brushing against him (forgive me for not knowing the proper pronoun) and cried out, “That’s assault!”

Although they knew nothing about what we think or why we think it, the band of transgenders made no effort to conceal their hatred of us. By their appearance and manner, they struck me as pathetic, inadequate people who undoubtedly had encountered rejection in their lives. I was tempted to say, “Yes, society probably is biased against you — but not because you’re transgender. They’re biased because you are angry, confrontational jerks. No one wants to be around you.” But I held my tongue.

The most uplifting encounter of the evening occurred when a faculty member, with whom I had exchanged emails the day before, introduced herself. I do not reveal her identity because she has not given me permission to do so and I don’t wish her to encounter blowback from “consorting with the enemy,” but I do want to quote some of her words because I agree with them:

While “constructive disagreement” is a key aspect of open inquiry, in my experience it’s most constructive when it’s part of a meaningful dialogue between two individuals who seek to understand one another’s perspectives. A public talk isn’t the best venue for deeper conversations to take place – all too often, Q&A sessions look more like fencing bouts than attempts to understand one another. While I think Shrier’s research methods lack the rigor needed to support her conclusions, I support her right to share her work tomorrow night without disruption.

I do think it’s important to invite speakers like Shrier to UVa to expose students and members of the Charlottesville community perspectives they would never hear otherwise. The Q&A fulfilled that goal. But the interaction with the audience did not lead to much mutual understanding. I look forward to engaging in a meaningful dialogue with someone who is willing to do the same.

James A. Bacon is executive director of The Jefferson Council.


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56 responses to “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of UVa’s Transgender Movement”

  1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    “Without benefit of knowing anything about Shrier other than what they had heard from their own tendentious sources…”

    You know this how, exactly?

    1. Virginia Gentleman Avatar
      Virginia Gentleman

      Just like Shrier herself, this crowd doesn’t need sources, research, or details, … if they can conceive it based on what they want to be true – it becomes fact.

      1. Matt Adams Avatar
        Matt Adams

        “Just like Shrier herself, this crowd doesn’t need sources, research, or details, ”

        This statement is an attack on Ms. Shrier, not anything that she has written. That makes this nothing more than an ad hom attack. If you have issues with her arguments, address those, do not direct them at the person or those whom you disagree with.

        Perhaps instead of implying confirmation bias of others, you should address you own.

    2. I infer this from the fact that they consistently mispresent what she says coupled with the fact that they parrot the misrepresentations made by others.

      The issue came up during the Q&A in which a questioner purported to quote Shrier’s book, she called him out for misrepresenting what she said and asking if he had read the book, and he had no answer.

      1. Eric the half a troll Avatar
        Eric the half a troll

        “Without benefit of knowing anything about Shrier other than what they had heard from their own tendentious sources…”

        A pretty definitive statement for an inference…

      2. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Inference?
        Misrepresent?

        Sure?

        You could start here, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202012/new-book-irreversible-damage-is-full-misinformation or with this
        https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/abigail-shriers-irreversible-damage-a-wealth-of-irreversible-misinformation/ and fill gaps.

        Creds be creds. Those authors have them, and the latter site lays out AS’s claims and refutes them 1-by-1.

        As a free speech issue, there is merit. On transgenderism? Not so much.

        A follow on to #2 is here
        https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/irreversible-damage-to-the-trans-community-a-critical-review-of-abigail-shriers-book-irreversible-damage-part-one/

  2. James Wyatt Whitehead Avatar
    James Wyatt Whitehead

    Bring Chloe Cole to campus.

  3. Randy Huffman Avatar
    Randy Huffman

    I could not make the event, but watched it livestream. Based on what Jim said about how the protesters were acting outside, I wish I was there to see it first hand.

    I have not paid a whole lot of attention to the transgender movement, basically with the view that if someone wants to transition, so be it, its their life. Shrier said the same thing about adults, her focus on the book is with what is happening with children, many times very young. It seemed that distinction was lost on some of the questioners and critics.

    It is incomprehensible to me that people are attacking her and her book. It is one authors journalistic research and opinion. She showed up knowing she was going to receive protests and tough questions. Good for her. I was struck by a few things about how the presentation and discussion flowed.

    1) As Jim said, she allowed plenty of time for questions from the audience. When it was time for Q&A, people lined up, and she took questions in the order that they came and was respectful and answered every one of them. A couple times people were asking tough questions, and she responded saying that was a good question and gave her response. There was no dodge.

    2) One questioner started off by congratulating her on the book, he said read it and said her research was incomplete for reasons I could not follow. Her response was simple, you didn’t read the book, because she did address those points in the book. There was no follow-up because she caught him flat footed. This was not a gotcha moment as far as she or anyone watching was concerned, it showed a lack of knowledge of the work she had done by a critic.

    3) Someone asked why she comes to events with the interviewer being friendly to her work, why doesn’t she go to tougher interviews. Her response was that she welcomes dialogue with critics, but they usually don’t invite her to their events or shows. The interesting exchange was she commented that the Cavalier Daily did not reach out to interview her, the questioner asked if she would do an interview with them and her response was…well they didn’t ask. A follow-up question came from a student who writes for the Cavalier Daily, and their exchange was respectful and she got a thoughtful response. Glad to see they sent someone (or perhaps several) inside.

    So the event seemed to go well (with no knowledge of what was happening outside). Shrier was thoughtful, professional, and came to engage anyone and everyone.

    In my opinion, we need more events like this, and less shallow dart throwing by people who clearly only want to cancel or criticize and have no interest in dialogue.

    1. …the view that if someone wants to transition, so be it, its their life. Shrier said the same thing about adults, her focus on the book is with what is happening with children, many times very young. It seemed that distinction was lost on some of the questioners and critics.

      Yes. It is also lost on some of the people who post here.

      1. Randy Huffman Avatar
        Randy Huffman

        I should point out that what I said above on that was my visceral response. Shrier was much more thoughtful. What I took from it was adults can make decisions themselves, children cannot. They are much more impulsive, and they are getting guidance and pressures from others, and that is the topic of the book. That was a big part of the presentation which I will not try and replicate or summarize.

        1. I believe you have accurately portrayed the positions I have seen/heard her state previously.

          Adult = Have at it.

          Child = Exercise extreme caution.

          That also happens to be my position on the matter.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            child with parental support?

          2. Matt Adams Avatar
            Matt Adams

            Measured responses and rational thought are too complex.

            I recall lots of PSA’s about peer pressure, it appears those are no longer applicable and we shouldn’t concern ourselves with those issues.

            It’s not like body modification and hormones aren’t permanent…

      2. LarrytheG Avatar

        some who post here blow right over the fact that the parents ALSO support their kids and consult medical professionals… in making their decisions… but for some, they’re still too young (even in college) and it apparently should NOT be their decision but the govt…

        It appears that Shrier interviewed parents who were opposed to their kids wants to trans including college-aged.

        Did she ALSO interview the parents who supported their kids?

        1. James C. Sherlock Avatar
          James C. Sherlock

          Read her book.

        2. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
          f/k/a_tmtfairfax

          Once someone reaches the age of majority, she/he should be given the right to take opposite sex hormones and even have body parts removed. I would hope someone would fully explain the medical and emotional aspects of the treatment before it begins. But the right to choose is theirs. So, I’m OK with college students making these decisions.

          But given what research and evidence from patients has shown, most especially in Europe, providing sex-change related hormone and surgical procedures to minors, is insane. We generally avoid prosecuting minors as adults and prohibit application of the death penalty and mandatory life without parole to minors because we recognize they often make rash decisions, and their minds and emotions are still under development. This same reasoning applies to life-altering medical decisions.

          There are many cases, especially with adolescent girls who have had major trauma from sex change treatments after they changed their minds. The loss of breasts and the inability to bear children has often caused great emotional pain and, in some cases, led to suicide. A parent supporting a minor’s decision to make life-changing, body-altering isn’t much of a parent, IMO.

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            What would you say if it was a College-aged girl and her parents disagreed? What would you say if it was a younger girl and her parents supported her and consulted with Medical Professionals whose specialty is transgender and they follow the Standard of Care?

            FWIW, I agree these are life-altering decisions that cannot be undone and young people do
            and will make mistakes and even have their parents on board with it.

            All true.

            so for the ones that did not make a mistake and it WAS the right decision for them- you’d
            have the govt ban it ?

          2. What is the Standard of Care for child or adolescent gender dysphoria?

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      If she did not interview the transgender kids directly and instead their estranged parents who disagreed with their kids… at least one was
      in college?

      I think if she wants to talk about transgender kids without actually talking with them, it becomes something she believes more than fact-based. She’s telling folks what She thinks… not what the kids do.

      Did she say that in some cases, she agrees with the desire to trans?

      1. Randy Huffman Avatar
        Randy Huffman

        Last question I do not remember or know, but she was very empathetic with adults who were struggling with these issues.

        Your first question was asked by a questioner. From what I remember of her response, she said that interviewing minors requires very careful procedures, and you have to remember, your talking about a child’s view. She said there are alot of book written about Trans people themselves, she wanted to write a book focused on the parents perspective when dealing with minors, which had generally been lacking in other books. She talked about about how she has spoken with many physicians who are very concerned about transitions being done on minors but do not feel they can speak up.

        1. Randy Huffman Avatar
          Randy Huffman

          I didn’t read the book, I suggest if you want to know the answers to those questions you read it.

          1. Randy Huffman Avatar
            Randy Huffman

            With all due respect Larry, you are asking a very specific question that I cannot answer as I was just listening to what she had to say in general terms.

            What I do know from her interview, is if you were there and asked her questions, she would have happily answered them and given you reasons for the answers she gave. She said she approached this in a journalistic fashion, I felt she was as critical with “activists” as you are. She did not strike me at all as an activist.

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            I’ll accept your view. Accept mine also.

          3. Randy Huffman Avatar
            Randy Huffman

            I’m not sure I follow your point.

            My view is based on watching her livestream, and how she took questions and handled them. Jim took it to another level, he was physically there, introduced her and read her work.

            Your view is from reading other commentaries of her work? What is there to accept, other than the fact that I do respect other peoples opinions.

          4. LarrytheG Avatar

            However each of us arrived our respective views. I’ve read pro, con and in between a variety.
            From what I have read, it appears that she only interviewed parents who were opposed to their
            kids desires to trans. She uses words like “craze” and “seducing” in the title.

            the following are extracts from her book:

            “Shrier states that she began to investigate adolescent-onset gender dysphoria after being contacted by the mother of a young adult with no apparent history of childhood gender dysphoria, who identified as transgender in college.”

            “She states that online trans influencers, on websites like Twitter, Tumblr and TikTok, frequently encourage questioning youth to identify as trans, experiment with breast binding and testosterone, and disown or lie to unsupportive family members”

            In wiki – go to “reception” to get views from quite a wide variety of people and group.

            so that’s what I base my view on. Accept it?

          5. Randy Huffman Avatar
            Randy Huffman

            With all due respect Larry, those are not excerpts from her book, they are selected excerpts of reviews of her book. So what is there to accept?

            This is like making a decision on who to vote for in Presidential election by solely reading or watching opinion pieces from Newsmax or MSNBC. Sure, I read opinion writers I like. But how would you react if I told you that Tucker said this or Maddow said that, so you should accept my view based on what one of them say?

            You gotta go to the original source. That is what Jim is doing, he is doing interviews and talking with the authors themselves, and showing up and putting on events. He has my respect for what he is doing.

          6. LarrytheG Avatar

            they are reviews that contain excepts from her book. They ARE from her book!

            I don’t watch or read JUST ONE side! And I DO also look at the credentials of the reviewer!

            You say go to the original source. The word is that the original source is very seriously
            biased and one sided and appeals to anti-trans folks… What some here are saying is
            that none of that matters because it’s not the “source” bull feathers! No one is fooled!

            If Jim did cover some of the more controversial aspect of the book and cited some of the
            critics also instead of giving a full-throated defense of her.. I might have put more stock in
            his opinion but I’m not surprised because much of his opinion goes that way. He’ll read a
            book that is all the rage of conservatives, then give a full-throated atta boy no matter the
            controversy and other views of it. Pro Forma.

            That’s exactly why I DO THANK blog authors who do give both sides of an issue – it provides
            some level of credibility and even better if in the final paragraph they THEN give THEIR view!

            There are a couple of BR authors that do that and I much appreciate their style of journalism.

          7. Randy Huffman Avatar
            Randy Huffman

            Fair enough, you asked that I accept your view, I really don’t, but do respect it.

            I will close remarks based on what Jim wrote in his article, a I totally disagree with you on how Jim approaches his work. Sure he is conservative, but he is encouraging dialogue and debate, that is what this blog is all about:

            “The mission of the Jefferson Council is to encourage civil dialogue and debate, so we were happy to let the audience participate. Interlocutors raised legitimate questions about Shrier’s methodology as a journalist and her ability as a non-scientist to interpret scientific studies. They cited academic studies supporting their positions and asked her to respond. She answered every question forthrightly, citing her own sources and studies….”

          8. Randy Huffman Avatar
            Randy Huffman

            Well it is his blog……but he has great contributors and allows them to post what they think.

            As to last sentence, you had it in reverse, I said I did not accept your view (meaning I don’t agree with it and explained why), but respect it. All I should say is I respect your view, as I would most people.

          9. LarrytheG Avatar

            Yep it is his blog and he does have a wide range of contributors and you and I can agree to disagree and move on to whatever the next thing is we may want to share respective views on and I appreciate it much because some here claim things like I’m a Soro’s paid plant and worse! and somehow escape the moderator!

            😉

          10. Right.

            Essentially, you are saying you don’t need to read the book because you have already pre-judged it based on the opinions of people you know nothing about.

          11. LarrytheG Avatar

            I don’t read that many books and I stay away from ones that appear to be activist -left and right and that’s not that hard to determine when looking at the reviews.. “nothing about”… au contraire…I bet you google do. … eh?

      2. Larry, stop spreading misinformation. Shrier interviewed many transgender kids. Read the book, for chrissake, before spouting off with objectively false claims.

        1. How well do you know the person you are quoting?

          Are you quoting them because you know and trust them, or are you quoting them because what they wrote aligns with your preconceived opinions about the author of the book?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            I’m quoting them because if they lied, all heck would break loose and the guy condemned
            as he rightly should be if he did,

            I don’t have “preconceptions” if I have gone out and read reviews as well as the many other
            references that are provided in Wiki and other places,

            It’s clear to me that she is anti-trans and I’m not at all alone on that,

            It’s also clear when you read the positive reviews and supporters who THEY ARE…

            It’s also clear no one is refuting what she apparently said in the author notes.

            Some people are apparently easily persuaded by someone who is gifted in their writing
            and lectures. I’m not. That actually puts me in skeptic mode for left and right.
            They have to make their case no matter how good or bad
            they are as an author or speaker… and reviews play into that for me. I read all
            of them… to get a sense of it.

      3. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        As usual, Larry to the rescue of inanity.
        One Note Johnny.

        You haven’t read the book.
        Just repeating what your puppet masters tell you to.
        And she did answer that question – so you did not watch the event.

        Thanks for your continued non-contribution to civilized discourse.

        Now go complain to the moderator about me being mean.

        1. Virginia Gentleman Avatar
          Virginia Gentleman

          Ok … I will. Moderator – how does this comment not get deleted?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            this was a few days ago but Carol did weigh in and said something about “opinion” that I did not fully understand….

          2. Virginia Gentleman Avatar
            Virginia Gentleman

            Rules broken: 1. No ad hominem attacks
            2. No snark.
            But I guess rules are only for one side of the debate. (yes – snarky.)

          3. LarrytheG Avatar

            sometimes it does seem to be uneven application of the rules…

          4. More often, it’s that I miss a disqus automatic delete of idiots or liar…

          5. More often, it’s that I miss a disqus automatic delete of idiots or liar…

          6. Larry said he didn’t read the book.
            Yes, saying a non-contribution was snark. If I deleted all snark, some commenters would never show up.

          7. LarrytheG Avatar

            If not commenting on a book not personally read is “off topic”, there sure are a lot of comments here that don’t get deleted for “off topic”!

            And if that is seriously a “rule”, say so on the masthead and at the front of the blog post.

            Just do the rules fairly and honestly without regard to the person commenting.

            Walter has gotten a free ride more than once here IMO.

          8. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Since the comment apparently passed, and I think it is too strict – like calling someone a liar if they are lying has been censored, and I think that is OK as opinion, but I am not the moderator – so here goes.

            Inanity – a description of Larry’s comment as inane.
            One note Johnny – always repeats the Dem line – opinion, also borne out in fact
            Haven’t read the book – patently true
            Repeating what he was told – see inanity and one note Johnny above
            She did answer the question at the event …which Larry did not attend and would know if he was actually interested in a real discussion

            False thank you for his lack of real contribution to discourse – I was being facetious – it was deserved – and it was my opinion.

            Seriously, why do you guys like censorship so much? (Couldn’t be because your ideas can’t withstand scrutiny could it?)

            And I am having fun messing with you…

          9. LarrytheG Avatar

            I don’t have a problem with it if we can return the favor and there is not a double standard on the moderation.

            on the book , WHY would I read ANY book or listen to any author who uses bomb-throwing words from the get go?

            The reviews confirmed it.

            It was not an objective discussion of the issues.

            She did not even interview the kids she was claiming to understand!

          10. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            Oh, right, from the objective LGBTQinfinity lobby and “allies” – yeah, objective reviews. From people who want to have an honest discussion. Watch the videos of the mentally ill at the UVA event.

          11. LarrytheG Avatar

            bomb-throwing words from the get go…. not for me no matter the author or their left/right orientation and you knew it was bad when conservatives fell it love with it!

          12. Virginia Gentleman Avatar
            Virginia Gentleman

            I believe that you likely dramatically overestimate the amount of impact that you have on us but I am glad you are having fun. It is important to have fun. But I also believe that you don’t have to read the book to comment on what reviewers are saying about the book that goes unchallenged as well as quoting excerpts from the book. I don’t have to read a book that David Duke wrote to know that he anything he writes is not credible and anything he says should be scrutinized. It is easy to determine that she isn’t objective without reading the book and reading excerpts and reviews. It appears this group believes that you have to rub your nose in crap for four hours to make a statement about someone. This is just foolish.

          13. LarrytheG Avatar

            … only for SOME books for SOME commenters!

          14. walter smith Avatar
            walter smith

            No it isn’t. Larry just kept repeating the same canned criticism that he read about (like the good little Dem parrot he has always been). The (fake) horse was dead. Very dead. Very very dead. I can repeat dishonest talking points, too. I prefer not to.

          15. LarrytheG Avatar

            Geeze Walter, if “canned criticism” was the issue, I think you would WIN hands down! same stuff over and over and over.. , incuding the ad homs!

  4. Lefty665 Avatar

    Congrats and thanks to you and the Jefferson Council for advancing informative and rational discussion of issues in today’s age of rage and intolerance. That is a force for good in the community. Three thumbs up.

  5. I find it very interesting that the person commenting the most on this topic:

    A. Hasn’t read her book
    B. Didn’t attend her presentation
    C. Didn’t even bother to click the link for the live stream

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      WHY would I even consider reading her book when she uses bomb-throwing words like “contagion” and “craze” and seducing?

      It’s crystal clear that she is NOT an objective person just looking at her title and quotes.

      I wouldn’t read ANY books or listen to any folks with those kinds of words – left or right!

  6. “. . . she argues that much of the transgender “craze” is a social contagion mainly affecting teenage girls, …”

    So — today’s craze among teenage girls is that they want to become teenage boys?

    Well, all I can say is, I’m glad I was a teenage boy 60 years ago when girls were girls.

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