Bacon's Rebellion

Questions for Webb and Warner

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by

James A. Bacon
in

Fact One:

Democrat health care negotiators have buckled to demands to exempt union contracts from the tax on high-end health plans until 2018, five years beyond the start date for other workers. The deal represents a giveaway to the unions of $59 billion. (See the Wall Street Journal coverage for details.)

Fact Two: Only 4.1% of Virginia’s workforce has union representation — the fourth smallest percentage of any state in the nation.

Fact Three: Both Sen. Jim Webb and Sen. John Warner have stated that they are committed to containing the cost of health care. The tax on high-end insurance plans was integral that goal. As even Democrat budget gurus concede, exempting gold-plated union health care plans will make it harder to hold the line.

Questions: Did either of Virginia’s two Democrat senators object to this giveaway? Are either of them concerned that the residents of Virginia will be disproportionately hosed? Are either of them concerned that the giveaway will undermine Obamacare’s efforts to contain health care costs?

Just asking.

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18 responses to “Questions for Webb and Warner”

  1. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    this hard… really no excuse for this kind of thing, but I'll give it a shot:

    "Of the top ten Senators requesting the highest amount of $ in solo earmarks 6 are Republicans.

    They are:

    #2 Shelby – 64 individual earmarks total $114,484,250

    #3 Bond – 54 individual earmarks total $95,691,491

    #5 Cochran – 65 individual earmarks total $75,908,475

    #6 Murkowski – 71 individual earmarks total $74,000,750

    #8 Inhofe – 34 individual earmarks total $53,133,500

    #9 McConnell – 36 individual earmarks total $51,133,500"

    http://roaringrepublican.com/2009/03/04/republican-earmarks-in-the-2009-senate-omnibus-spending-bill/

    Now.. what I'd like to know is when exactly, we changed the name of earmarks to "bribes" and…. did Va Republicans complain when these other states got these earmarks?

    oh but I digress….

    " With the Republicans in control of both chambers in Congress, DeLay, along with Gingrich and conservative activist Grover Norquist, helped start the K Street Project, an effort to pressure Washington lobbying firms to hire Republicans in top positions, and to reward loyal GOP lobbyists with access to influential officials.

    With the Republicans in control of both chambers in Congress, DeLay, along with Gingrich and conservative activist Grover Norquist, helped start the K Street Project, an effort to pressure Washington lobbying firms to hire Republicans in top positions, and to reward loyal GOP lobbyists with access to influential officials.

    …

    " In 2000, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed a worker reform bill to extend the protection of U.S. labor and minimum-wage laws to the workers in the Northern Mariana Islands. DeLay, then the House Republican Whip, stopped the House from considering the bill.[58] DeLay later blocked a fact-finding mission planned by Rep. Peter Hoekstra by threatening him with the loss of his subcommittee chairmanship.[57]
    DeLay received gifts from Abramoff, including paid golfing holidays to Scotland, concert tickets, and the use of Abramoff's private skyboxes for fundraisers. In May 2000, ARMPAC received the free use of one of Abramoff's private skyboxes to host a political fundraiser."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_DeLay

    more?

    so…. the Dems are so evil and corrupt that we ought to put the Republicans back in charge with someone like Tom DeLay as their leader…..

    ah… the good old days…

  2. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Larry, Wuh?

  3. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Nobody is accusing Obama or Webb or Warner of being unethical. The question is whether Webb and Warner are competent. Jim Bacon makes the point that kissing the butts of the unions by delaying the tax on the high end health care plans at the unions will disproportionately hurt Virginia. This is because Virginia has limited union membership. This point seems hard to debate. The question then arises whether Virginia's two US Senators – Webb and Warner – have objected to this patently special interest based legislation. I believe the answer is "no". This brings into question the focus of Webb and Warner. Why aren't they representing their constituents by objectiong to clear favoritism in the health care plan that hurts Virginia.

    Because they are corrupt? No.

    Because they are incompetent? I think so.

    Because they want to kiss Obama's butt and they hope nobody in Virginia notices? Maybe.

    Regardless – if they don't change their tunes we need 2 new senators when they come up for re-election. Frankly, I don't care if their replacements are Democrat or Republican. I just want them to be Virginians.

    Fortunately, we will get to throw Webb out of office in 2012.

  4. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Time magazine has an interesting map that shows the percentage of perons that will be aided (added to the health care rolls, by state.

    Virginia is among the lowest at 5%.
    Misssissppi is the highest at 39%

    Four New England states will get near zero advantage from the bill, among them Massachusetts, which already has mandatory health care coverage.

    What irony that Masschusetts, home of Ted Kennedy, is about to elect a Republican Senator who may be able to kill the health care bill.

    Are Masschusetts residents oposed to the bill because they have little to gain, and much to pay?

    Because they largely supported Hillary?

    Is this a harbinger of a huge backlash form the left against favored treatment of big banks?

    What do the polls say in Mississippi, about the health care plan?

    RH

  5. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    virtually all legislation that has been passed by Democrats and Republicans has special provisions in it that benefit special interest groups.

    Sen. Tom Coburn (R) calls earmarks the “trading currency” of Congress.

    I'm not sure how "competence" is germane.

    I'm not excusing or justifying the practice but it seems to be the way the legislation gets down – and has been that way for a long time.

    To NOW bring it up like it's something unique and horrible is silly – and in some respects not very honest if it ignores on purpose the fact that this is not a unique or unusual practice.

    were their professed intentions of rolling back some of these odious practices?

    yes. but changing these things is harder than one guy can do.

    The President can no more "order" Congress what to do than the man in the moon.

    He can say he's going to have C-Span at the hearings but it ain't going to happen if leaders in Congress don't agree.

    Is Nancy Pelosi/Harry Reid in the same category as Tom Delay when it comes to ethics and morals?

    I don't know -you tell me.

    The Warner/Webb thing is an organized strategy coming from those who oppose HC.

    I received two calls – ala "push poll" offering to connect me directly with their phone numbers if I "agreed" that they were doing wrong.

    Where were these folks when prior legislation involved such "deals" ?

    they were AWOL – because what this is about is not earmarks and deals but about attacking anything and everything that Obama and the Dems support – not as a frontal attack on the merits – but through what amounts to a misinformation campaign…..

    i.e. claiming that Webb/Warner are acting in ways that prior Senators did not act – which is a joke people.

    Incompetent? Nope. They're playing the game.

    Legislation would never get done if EVERY legislator demanded and received special treatment for their state on every piece of legislation.

    Nope.. they take turns…

    I know.. this is SUCH A SHOCK that elected officials would actually bargain their support or non-support on votes….

    this is not new and not unique and portraying as so in the case of Warner/Webb is … well.. it's just not honest IMHO.

    I'll accept the idea that it's an odious way of doing legislation – not new – but time honored.

  6. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    On Tuesday evening, all of this "stuff" could be rendered moot if the Dems lose their 60th vote.

    If that comes to pass – we'll be entering an area of legislative gridlock and more than likely a neutered Presidency – a sort-of suspended animation for the next 3 years. no?

    On this point, I do condemn the Dems – who apparently have no "Plan B" in they lose their super majority.

    The Republicans are not in much better shape.

    If the "new" Senate requires 60 votes to pass legislation – it might work that way no matter who has the majority but less than 60.

    At that point, the focus MIGHT SHIFT to folks in the middle rather than the edges… to craft legislation that is non-partisan "enough" to garner the 60.

    But here's the deal.

    If you think that "deals" are going to magically go away with such a bi-partisan approach to legislation – I have a turnip truck for you.

    Then who will be "blamed" for not being competent enough to make deals for their state?

  7. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    While I generally regard myself as conservative, one book that inspired me growing up was JFK's "Profiles in Courage." I've read the book many times. I didn't always agree with the decisions Kennedy's "heroes" made, I was still inspired by their courageous willingness to pay the price of sticking to principles.

    I don't think any Senator from Virginia that I've seen since I moved her in 1984 would make the cut.

    Now we need compromise in government. A person who holds out on every issue is not effective. But there is a point at which senators and representatives must vote for the best interests of their constituents.

    Similarly, we need some level of party discipline among our elected officials. A Democrat who never backs Obama or a Republican who never backs McDonnell is likely fraudulent. But there comes a time when one must put aside a party label and vote for what makes sense for his/her constituents.

    A bill that exempts unions members from paying tax on excessively generous health care plans doesn't provide the incentive to reduce health care costs or serve the interests of most Virginians.

    Similarly, NoVA senators and delegates who vote to send more dollars to Richmond in exchange for pennies are not voting in the interests of their constituents.

    TMT

  8. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    well stated TMT!

    I assume that the NoVa legislators that represent NoVa have the support and approval of the voters on NoVa and ditto with Webb and Warner.

    I've been around long enough to see even very popular politicians take positions in good conscience that did not sit well with all their constituents.

    John Warner was one of them.

    In my view, he brought respect to his office – BECAUSE of his independence – and he was senior enough and respected enough that he was more or less immune from the Tom Delay types.

    I think Webb is in that mold. He follows his conscience for the most part form what I see until proven otherwise.

    I cannot see Webb kissing anyone's butt so Groveton you get a demerit for that remark.

  9. Darrell -- Chesapeake Avatar
    Darrell -- Chesapeake

    Bonus supertax sends the City's super-rich to Switzerland.

    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article6986976.ece

    Let the exodus begin.

  10. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    Darrell.. tell me which country they are going to go to that has a LOWER tax rate that this country?

    ha ha ha

    run rich guy run…..

    here's what they USUALLY do…

    " IRS Gives Suspected UBS Tax Cheats More Time to Confess"

    you can take your money and go live grandly in a 3rd world country – an expatriate I think they are called…

    all of this goes back to kids getting a decent education – and who pays for the ones who don't get that education and whether or not they stay here or go some place where the tax bite is lower..

    hmm… looks like there ARE some options!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

    that's curious all those countries have a lower tax rate and universal health care – go figure.

  11. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    "Legislation would never get done if EVERY legislator demanded and received special treatment for their state on every piece of legislation.

    Nope.. they take turns… "

    ——————————–

    Kind of like the way roads get built, eh? We tkae turns because other wise we get nothing done.

    RH

  12. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    But there is a point at which senators and representatives must vote for the best interests of their constituents.

    ———————————

    There is no reason to support any legislation that does not increase the net social benefit: that is not inth ebest interests of ALL of their constituents.

    Their constituents are eveeryone they reprexssent, not just those who voted for them.

    RH

  13. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Ray – I agree. An elected official should try to advance the interests of all their constituents, including those who did not vote or who voted for the other candidate.

    Too often, elected officials from both parties vote for the party line instead of what's best for their constituents.

    I'm generally not as critical of those legislators from RoVA who come to Richmond to sheer the wool from the Fairfax County flock. I am extremely critical of the Fairfax County legislators who bring the sheep to Richmond and ask whether they can use the sheers.

    One of best things about these terrible economic times is that Fairfax County legislators seem to be gathering to defend Fairfax County taxpayers.

    Let's see what Warner and Webb do over the next few months.

    TMT

  14. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Hey LarryG:

    Ever been here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_British_Virgin_Islands

    Great place. Hard for you to believe but I think it's even nicer than Fredricksburg.

  15. Groveton Avatar
    Groveton

    Hey LarryG:

    Have you ever been to the Commonwealth? Oh, I mean the Commonwealth of the Bahamas? Nice place. I like Abaco. Here's something you didn't know –
    FREEDOM FROM TAXATION
    One of the most attractive elements about investing in The Bahamas is the tax free status accorded income. There are no taxes levied on capital gains, corporate earnings, personal income, sales, inheritance or dividends. This tax freedom is available to all resident corporations, partnerships, individuals and trusts.

    Ha ha ha

    Stay and pay, poor man, stay and pay.

    I'll be on the bonefish over at Walker's Cay if you need me. With all my money. I guess Ole Barry will just have to get more from you.

    Ha ha ha

  16. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    oh oh – what's this:

    " Tax Haven to Avoid – The British Virgin Islands"

    http://www.panamalaw.org/jurisdictions_to_avoid_bvi.html

    see… no matter where you go Groveton – there is absolutely no guarantee that the Govt won't turn on you and take your money.

    geeze..who can you trust anymore?

    it's a big world and I'm quite sure – many places – one could live quite well as an expatriate….

    and in a way.. many of us are wooses – the expatriate option is ALWAYS there but most are too chicken to do it.

    it sounds like you are fed up with the US… but think the EU and other industrialized countries including Canada would be frying pan worse…so now… you're trying to find a 3rd world country that is not quite so 3rd world?

    I guess that's why you chose the British … rather than say the Canary Isles or New Caledonia?

    but I'm betting you're a woose here.

    besides.. when you got to that would-be haven and found out it was also run by clowns you'd be really messed up then…

  17. Larry G Avatar
    Larry G

    Groveton – you're a man of the world – literally… you've been around…

    I've met many people from NoVa and they say they're glad they left – ….almost….. the new place is less crowded and less congested but dead as a doornail in terms of things to do… whereas NoVa is a vibrant place..by comparison at least.

    could you REALLY live on an Island where being out of your favorite toothpicks becomes a mind warping experience?

  18. James A. Bacon Avatar
    James A. Bacon

    Ah, the British Virgin Islands. Tortolla is one of my favorite spots on the planet. Ask EMR if he still owns a cottage there.

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