Halifax Rebel
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132 responses to “Halifax Rebel”
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A sight that warms my heart. 🙂
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The two statues ought to stand side by side, buttons and all.
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Nothing wrong with a Confederate soldier wearing Union buttons. Think of it as repurposing the buttons for a new calling—keeping a Virginia soldier warm.
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Stonewall Jackson’s best quartermaster was Union General Nathaniel Banks. Most of the men of the Valley District had yankee accouterments thanks to Commissary Banks.
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No suggestion of wrongdoing about the use of buttons. The USA buttons may have represented a subtle signal concerning ambivalence about the war.
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No suggestion or allegation to the contrary was offered. Don’t comprehend how buttons crate warmth.
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“Don’t comprehend how buttons crate warmth.”
Well, buttons help CREATE warmth by holding your coat closed, thus retaining heat. You’re welcome.
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“In the 1920’s a tree blew over and knocked the statue off, breaking it.”
God was trying to tell them something…
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See below. You’re one of the confounded ones.
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Confederate soldier—or Virginia soldier? In 1861, when the Civil War began, many Virginians enlisted not to fight for the Confederacy, but for their state. They didn’t sign up to follow Jeff Davis and Alexander Stephens; they signed up because their state called them. Their states then entered the Confederacy.
Yes, it’s a bit complicated—but we’re Americans. We’re supposed to be able to handle complex thoughts. The modern world expects us to walk AND chew gum at the same time.
Reminds me of a Congressman who opposed the Iraq War. He had a constituent whose son was in the National Guard. The son opposed the Iraq War too…but he deployed with his unit when it was mobilized, and he died in action. When the father asked the congressman why his son had to die, the congressman responded “Well, he took an oath.” An oath which he respected, and followed.
Thousands of Virginians took an oath to serve their state, and then went where their state sent them. It’s a concept that seems to confound 21st-century Democrats and progressives.
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It’s neither confounding nor complicated. You are just so hellbent on finding pride in a failed rebellion over slavery from 160 years ago that you’ve twisted yourselves in knots to justify it.
If the state you sworn an Oath to has dramatically change to serve something very different than when you originally swore the oath, then you’re not obliged to uphold that oath. It’s not a magic contract. If you decide to still uphold that oath, then you must take responsibility for what that entails, and that includes serving whatever greater body your state is serving, such as the Confederacy.
So yeah, it’s not “confounding”: most of us learned about Transitive Properties in grade school.
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And apparently you didn’t learn much about history, in grade school or elsewhere. If you think that the only reason the Civil War was fought was to preserve slavery, then whoever educated you did so poorly.
Life is, and people are, confounding and complicated. If you insist on looking for a shallow, thin explanation for complicated issues, you will fail forever. If you can’t handle, mentally or emotionally, complex matters, again, you will fail forever.
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If slavery had not existed, what were reasons to engage in a war?
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“If slavery had not existed, what were reasons to engage in a war?”
If you are a product of the American education system…then no wonder the Chinese are sending intelligence-gathering balloons over our country. They have contempt for us. And I don’t blame them.
Are you sure you’re up to handling the responsibilities of American citizenship?
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That’s your answer to the proposition that slavery was not the major cause of the Civil War?
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That proposition—slavery was not the major cause of the Civil War—wasn’t the proposition you made, which I responded to. You are moving the goalposts here.
Yes, slavery started the Civil War. But thousands of men fought with the Confederate armies for reasons other than slavery.
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Love to learn how, if slavery did not exist, the Civil War would have commenced in any event.
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A fair point. If slavery hadn’t existed in 1861, I doubt there would have been a Civil War.
But life isn’t that easy, is it? It’s always more complicated, isn’t it? Perhaps that’s too much for you—but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Perhaps it means that the real world is too much for you.
As I’ve said, time and time again, in the mid 1860s many people had stronger allegiances to their states than the nati0n. The Civil War settled that—in 1865. But, in 1861, when it hadn’t been settled yet, it was an open question.
If you insist on easy, comfortable answers to difficult problems, then you should probably move to Disney World. Or Cartoon Central.
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Y’all are the one insisting upon more complicated explanations and the criticizing the commenter. Shabby stuff.
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A fair point. If slavery hadn’t existed in 1861, I doubt there would have been a Civil War.
But life isn’t that easy, is it? It’s always more complicated, isn’t it? Perhaps that’s too much for you—but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Perhaps it means that the real world is too much for you.
As I’ve said, time and time again, in the mid 1860s many people had stronger allegiances to their states than the nati0n. The Civil War settled that—in 1865. But, in 1861, when it hadn’t been settled yet, it was an open question.
If you insist on easy, comfortable answers to difficult problems, then you should probably move to Disney World. Or Cartoon Central.
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“If you insist on looking for a shallow, thin explanation for complicated issues, you will fail forever.”
Occam’s Razor be damned!!
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“Occam’s Razor be damned!!”
YOU have earned ANOTHER cookie! With sprinkles this time!
Full trolls realize that they can only hide behind the “Occam’s Razor” defense for so long, before they start looking silly.
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It is a principle not a “defense”…
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Thousands also served the Union cause, also convinced they were loyal to their country. Always miss those statues and monuments. An entire section of the state left to remain loyal to the Union (and to give Lincoln some more electoral votes.)
Such thinking eventually led to the Holocaust…
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…man up and fill in the dots. Explain how serving in a Virginia regiment in the Confederate Army compares to the Einsatzgrueppen.
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…man up and fill in the dots. Explain how serving in a Virginia regiment in the Confederate Army compares to the Einsatzgrueppen.
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You don’t see how easily “well, I took an oath” becomes “I was just following orders”?
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No, because I’m not as shallow and silly as you are. I also have common sense, and recognize there’s a difference between fighting an opposing army and forcing naked women and children into ZyklonB showers.
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I will remind you that your “well, I took an oath” justification led to brother killing brother… sorry, it is not the stretch you make it…
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Thousands also served the Union cause, also convinced they were loyal to their country. Not just Freedmen, either. Always miss their statues and monuments. Why none of those? An entire section of the state left to remain loyal to the Union (and to give Lincoln some more electoral votes.)
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I think it’s a great idea to erect statues to Virginians who fought for the Union. There were several Virginia regiments in the Union army.
I heard that story before Mr. Dick. The statue in Boydton was mounted on a swivel. A popular Halloween prank was to swivel the statue from facing the courthouse to the street. Next Halloween it would turn the other way. The Boydton statue is now at the Presbyterian church graveyard. A nice sign detailing the entire truthful story of how it ended up there.
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The same company made both Union and Confederate monuments en masse. Johnny Reb and Billy Yank were indistinguishable. As was appropriate.
I live near Bloody Angle / Spotsylvania battlefield. I’ve walked there for years , several times a week.
There are a number of monuments and memorials there, virtually all of them to the men that fought and died there. There are no “hero” generals astride their horses or that for that matter even the generals except for Union General John Sedgwick, a highly decorated veteran of prior battles, who was killed by a sniper bullet just as he was saying they could not hit an elephant or something to that effect.
His monument is at the entrance to the park:
He has another at West Point:
I hope this is not too far off topic but I came across this Halifax Civil Rights memorial in my review of the Confederate soldier memorial – sort of a juxtaposition:
https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=181109
“Mary M. Bethune High School Marker
Inscription. The Banister Baptist Association built a private African American training school in 1827, originally consisting of four wooden buildings and a dormitory. The school met only six months of the year and went through ninth grade. Because of transportation difficulties in a county as large as Halifax, the school was primarily a boarding school. Board cost $200 a year, which was prohibitive for most Blacks at the time.
In 1920 the four original buildings were torn down and a new building was erected to house African American high school students; the school was newly called Halifax Training School. Later it was upgraded and renamed the Mary M. Bethune High School. By 1950 it was the state’s largest rural high school for Blacks.
While the school had no running water in science labs, little money for equipment and supplies, and no means of transportation, a national magazine reported 27 of the 64 seniors went on to college, far above the national average of 20 percent at that time.
In 1956, to meet “separate but equal” standards and stave off integration in the face of court decisions, the county erected the present building, officially named the Mary M. Bethune High School of Halifax County. Despite the county’s efforts otherwise, the school became the hub of the local integration movement in 1969. After integration in 1970, Mary M. Bethune became a junior high school. All county high school students — Black and white — began attending Halifax Senior High School.
The original Mary M. Bethune High School building was later renovated and renamed the Mary M. Bethune Government Office Complex. The complex provides services for the community and houses the school system administration.”
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re: ” While the school had no running water in science labs, little money for equipment and supplies, and no means of transportation, a national magazine reported 27 of the 64 seniors went on to college, far above the national average of 20 percent at that time.”
Even more amazing. Who taught those kids to the level they were able to go to college? Back in those days, where did Black Teachers come from as many Southern Colleges did not accept blacks.
VPI admitted it’s first black student in 1953.
Who taugh the black kids back during those times and what educational attainment did those teachers actually have?
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HBCUs existed. They produced doctors, dentists, pilots, teachers, nurses, journalists…
They still do.
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Right, but where did their professors get THEIR education? How did black folks get educated during that era both k-12 and College? Up North?
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HBCUs like Howard and West Virginia State were ‘founded’ beginning in 1837. Alabama A&M in 1875. Alabama State in 1867. There has always been a learned and highly skilled black population regardless of whether formal training/credentialing opportunities existed.
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They were “educated” when they were enslaved? When and where did they become “educated” in the South ? Have to start somewhere. That’s what I’m trying to understand. How did the first educated blacks become educated (the ones that ended up teaching others)?
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They read books smuggled in from the North??
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Oh some of them were actually taught by some plantation owners but I don’t think
many of them were taught to a level where they could then become teachers themselves.Most all colleges in the South did not allow blacks to enroll even long after slavery was over so how did Blacks get an education sufficient for them to become teachers in K12 or in HBCUs?
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All black persons weren’t enslaved (see Attucks, Crispus). Many of my ancestors were free. Some enslaved persons learned alongside the slaver’s children so as to be better ‘companions’ to their masters and siblings. Others, to be more effective arm-candy/conversationalists. This was not at all uncommon, especially in Louisiana but even in VA (See Lumpkin and the Devil’s Half Acre). There were people who learned through benevolence and clandestine means too. Where there’s a will and all that. 1837, when Cheyney was founded, is WELL before the civil war. I can also track my ancestors back to Africa with my 3rd great grandfather identifying his father in census records as an African captive who survived the middle passage.
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All black people weren’t enslaved (see Attucks, Crispus). Others were encouraged t be learned so as to be better ‘companions’ to their masters/siblings. Some learned to read and write (and shared their knowledge) in clandestine ways. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.
Right. But I’m talking about people who TEACH. K-12 schools teachers and College Instructors. If blacks could not attend white schools k12 or college , how did black teachers get trained so they could then teach their kids and go on to get their Masters and PHDS?
One was George Washington Carver – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_Carver
Look up Julia Chinn. There were many like her. George Washington Carver wasn’t alone. They were born within a decade of each other.
DId not know. Pretty interesting… thanks!
Choctaw Academy
Real wealth, power and knowledge through formal tutors was available to some and passed on when possible. Most of the anti-literacy laws weren’t passed until after Nat Turner’s rebellion. Here’s another quick overview of one form of knowledge/wealth transfer. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaçage
Link got cut off…”placage”. There’s scant evidence of fancy balls but plenty of evidence that enslaved women were doing what they could to negotiate freedom and education and property rights for themselves and their children. In Harriet Jacobs’ 1st person account, enslaved girls were frequently targeted for rape and also abused by white mistresses offended by their spouse’s unfaithfulness. She described being berated by her captor for not being grateful for the ‘privileges’ she received and his ‘attentions’.
pretty ugly ugly side of slavery … and won’t see it in Virginia history standards I bet.
No. You can’t even have docents and interpreters at places where these atrocities occurred talk about it without complaints. It’s much more comfy to sing Confederate praises.
And won’t hear it on BR either……….. from the usual defenders and apologists…
Once again, man up, come up to the front page and write an article telling everyone all about it. Or keep nibbling on writers’ heels in the comments.
Or, those who cling to the myth of a noble confederacy can remove the UDoC blinders from their eyes and produce more accurate content. That’s also an option.
Yup. When Donald says “man up”, I’m thinking but not the way he is…
Details on the founding date and location of schools listed above in which the AMA played a major role in the South: Howard University 1867, Washington, D.C., Berea College, 1855, Berea Kentucky, Hampton Institute, 1868, Hampton, Virginia, Atlanta University, 1867-1988, Atlanta, Georgia, Fisk University, 1866, Nashville, Tennessee, Straight (now Dillard) University, 1868-1934, New Orleans, Louisiana, Tougaloo College, 1869, Jackson, MIssissippi, Talladega College, 1867, Talladega, Alabama, LeMoyne (now LeMoyne-Owen) College, 1862 Memphis, Tennessee, Tillotson (now Huston-Tillotson) College, 1877, Austin, Texas, Avery Institute, 1865, Charleston, South Carolina.
HBCUs existed. They produced doctors, dentists, pilots, teachers, nurses, journalists…
They still do.
Along the same lines… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9881075fbde9fe443b279b199ed2b9890f742bd71c5c1fd4b3e77930c040cc4e.jpg
(Edit: Historical note. Almost all the war memorials in Germany are to WWI soldiers and were erected in the mid- to late-30s as Nazi propaganda. The one pictured was erected in 1938 and the names from WWII were added after the war. Many of these have been relocated to less prominent locations in recent years. Not everyone is happy there as well…)
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It is never a bad idea to remind ourselves and others of the true cost of war. Too bad too many had forgotten again by 1939.
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Absolutely true. Not so much though that the toll of WWII was forgotten by 1939, more like the memory was twisted into extreme nationalism through such propaganda. I can’t find any sentiments that these Nazi pieces should be preserved in order to honor them but more to remind people of their own horrible history. That is where the parallels with Lost Cause propaganda seem to end.
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That photo clearly shows 1939-45, too. You often see both wars together in the monuments in French towns, as well.
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Yes, in many of the German towns, they simply added a list of those lost in WWII to the WWI memorial built pre-WWII. I can’t find any explicit WW-II memorials designed to honor the cause – typically just a list of names. I suspect France may be different in that regard.
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It was one war. Eventually that is how history will report it. They took a breather to grow a new crop of cannon fodder and dove back in.
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History will be wrong then… alas, won’t be the first time…
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It was one war. Eventually that is how history will report it. They took a breather to grow a new crop of cannon fodder and dove back in.
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No one wins. Some just lose more than others.
I’ve said this before, but worth the repetition. There are well-maintained military cemeteries all over the French countryside, American, British and Canadian, a few Aussies tossed in, and German.
Germany pays to maintain theirs. The French has never cashed an Allied check.
Inscription: “These patriots laid their all upon the altar of their country their valor will ever remain a part of her history
This monument is erected by an appreciative people in loving remembrance of the Confederate soldiers of Halifax County who fought for constitutional liberty in the war of 1861-1865”
The Lost Cause propaganda in action there… unsurprisingly erected in 1911…
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Given that inscription, I think the Halifax statue will end up being removed – probably sooner rather than later.
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I doubt it… in the end, the removal of such statues is a local decision and they are not likely to agree… but you never know these days…
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Or, some progressive, thin-skinned busybodies could find some woke DC or NYC law firm to sue Halifax County, and threaten to bury it under a flood of legal bills until it submits. It would be the woke thing to do.
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Tell you what, if that actually happens in Halifax, I will come speak on behalf of the BoS to decide for itself. Deal…?
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Sorry, but not good enough. Not even close. Now, if you come with enough money to pay the county’s legal fees, or help it mount a PR campaign to rebut all the negative press that will flow from a woke media and legal assault, then perhaps. But no one here thinks you’ll do that.
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Talk to me when you prediction come true… I won’t be holding my breath…
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For once, I hope you’re right.
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FYI, 1911 was the 50th anniversary of the beginning of the Civil War. As I learned from a lecture by a ranger at Gettysburg, the 25th and 50th anniversaries of a major event are normally times when those events are remembered
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You know that the group that erected this statue, United Confederate Veterans, was really quite explicit about their desire to promote the Confederacy and its defenders by erecting these monuments. There are literally books written about this group’s role in the Lost Cause initiative around the beginning of the 20th Century. What next?… Birth of a Nation was really a documentary…?
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I’ll stipulate that there was plenty of white racism, for all people of color, in the late 1800s and early 1900s. I’m sure most white Southerners thought of blacks as inferior. Just as white Americans, North and South, thought of Native Americans as inferior. William T. Sherman, in his autobiography, wrote about the industrious whites who removed “useless Indians” from their lands in the west, and turned those lands into productive farmers and ranchers. Stephen Douglas, in his debates with Lincoln, referred to Hispanics as an “inferior race.”
You are engaging in presentism, and you should know better.
There are many things about the Confederacy that do deserve to be respected. People fighting for their rights, and for an interpretation of the U.S. Constitution that they believed to be correct. A determination to do one’s duty. A willingness to defend one’s home. Great battlefield successes, and countless examples of individual heroism and courage. Statues and memorials mean many different things. If you can’t figure that out, then that’s your problem.
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“Statues and memorials mean many different things.”
I agree with that much to be sure. The issue is that for many decades only the voice of a certain portion of the population had the authority to state what the meanings of those statues and memorials were and no respect (more often harsh punishment) was paid to those who dared to voice their contrary opinions. Now, when those opinions are gaining a voice, those who had the power previously demand to be respected.
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This was more than mere racism. They were fighting for the right to profit from the unpaid labor of their offspring, freely rape, maim, murder and enslave, and to force others to support their debauchery and immorality. They were fighting to preserve an economic system built on brutality and human suffering. Their wives and daughters, mothers and aunts were also knowing participants in inflicting and perpetuating abuse, so much so that they led the charge to cover up their crimes for another 100+ years. You have very strange views of what deserves respect. What’s more, there were people who had the moral clarity to see and name it for what it was…evil…then as now. There’s nothing present about the ability to see and condemn it for what it was. Some are still blind.
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This was more than mere racism. They were fighting for the right to profit from the unpaid labor of their offspring, freely rape, maim, murder and enslave, and to force others to support their debauchery and immorality. They were fighting to preserve an economic system built on brutality and human suffering. Their wives and daughters, mothers and aunts were also knowing participants in inflicting and perpetuating abuse, so much so that they led the charge to cover up their crimes for another 100+ years. You have very strange views of what deserves respect. What’s more, there were people who had the moral clarity to see and name it for what it was…evil…then as now. The enslaved said as much from the beginning as reported by their captors and with their actions. There’s nothing present about the ability to see and condemn it for what it was. Some are still blind.
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The ‘truth” about Slavery that many do not want to hear, admit to or taught in school, yes.
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If there must needs be a memorial outside the courtroom, dedicate it to Celia and her attorney. (Missouri v. Celia, a slave)
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If there must needs be a memorial outside the courtroom, dedicate it to Celia and her attorney. (Missouri v. Celia, a slave)
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If there must needs be a memorial outside the courtroom, dedicate it to Celia and her attorney. (Missouri v. Celia, a slave)
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What was done to blacks AFTER the civil war was over and slaves freed is not “presentism”. It’s the truth and reality and it was NOT the “norm” of that time at all.
The folks who engaged in Jim Crow and engaged in overt harm to black folks were the same ones who put up the statues and memorials and lauded the “honor” of the Confederacy.
When supposed “benefactors” gave money to Universities who were the descendants of slave owners, The University itself would not admit blacks.
A sad statute. Looks like it was cast by a company specializing in grave-yard markers. Seems redundant given the memorial next door bearing the names of all of the county’s war dead over the centuries.
@ Larry who said: “Even more amazing. Who taught those kids to the level they were able to go to college? Back in those days, where did Black Teachers come from as many Southern Colleges did not accept blacks.”
Look up Freedman’s Association and Freedmen’s Aid Society. White teachers, many with religious backgrounds, taught Black adults and children, often at great personal risk, during and after the War.
This was in addition to the independent Black teachers. (Apologies for omitting that.)
As for colleges, from wikipedia…
“A second Morrill Act was passed in 1890, aimed at the former Confederate states. This act required each state to show that race was not an admissions criterion, or else to designate a separate land-grant institution for persons of color.[16] This latter clause had the effect of facilitating segregated education, although it also provided higher educational opportunities for persons of color who otherwise would not have had them.[17] Among the seventy colleges and universities which eventually evolved from the Morrill Acts are several of today’s historically black colleges and universities.”
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For the love of God, STAHP with the savior messaging. There weren’t scads of benevolent white teachers all over the south teaching enslaved persons to read for the sake of Christian charity. Most of those who learned in the south before emancipation did so because it benefited their captors to have a slave who could help keep the books, run errands in town, steer ships at sea (hello, Robert Smalls!) and converse about something other than the weather before and after rape. THAT is how enslaved persons learned. Free persons may have had access to more formal teaching. Furthermore, anti-literacy laws didn’t always exist: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-literacy_laws_in_the_United_States.
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Depends on your definition of scads. From internet archive wayback machine: http://www.ucc.org/about-us/hidden-histories/blacks-and-the-american.html The American Missionary Association (AMA) and its predecessors, the Amistad Committee and the Union Missionary Society (UMS), covering the years 1839 to 1878 were “evangelical abolitionists.” “The AMA was founded by leaders of both races who had much in common: All were political abolitionists, members of the Liberty and the Free Soil parties; all were opposed to colonization (the return of blacks to Africa); and all were church members of liberal communions. Most of the whites were Congregationalists. The blacks were Congregational or Presbyterian ministers.”
“…Some of the schools in which the AMA played a major role is to see the scope of its influence in the field of education in the South: Howard University, Berea College, Hampton Institute, Atlanta University, Fisk University, Straight (now Dillard) University, Tougaloo College, Talladega College, LeMoyne (now LeMoyne-Owen) College, Tillotson (now Huston-Tillotson) College, Avery
Institute.”-
Indeed, it does. This is from a SEVENTH grade text: https://wwnorton.com/college/history/america7_brief/content/multimedia/ch15/research_01.htm#:~:text=It%20never%20attracted%20many%20followers,slavery%20in%20the%20United%20States.
Despite the movement’s outsize role in the founding of HBCUs, they represented roughly 2% of the population and not all of them were white.
Doesn’t seem like scads to me but your mileage may vary. The movement to obtain freedom and education began long before the founding of these colleges and was primarily led and advanced by the enslaved, formerly enslaved, and free black people themselves. Runaway slave ads dating back to the mid 1700s clearly identify many of the runaways as skilled laborers and able to read and write.
The outsize attention paid to the role of the few white individuals who participated in advancing freedom and equality for all neatly soothes the conscience of those who did nothing (at best) or openly resisted (at worst) and minimizes (at best) and erases (at worst) what oppressed communities did and have always done to free and advance themselves.
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The attention to the folks that did step up for the enslaved as well as the freed slaves diverts from the other folks engaging in Jim Crow against blacks – which was rampant in the South.
Amusing that we point out the few that really did do something while ignoring the ones that not only did nothing but actively harmed black folks – for decades after they were freed and now would, no doubt, oppose the telling of that history in schools.
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Thats, IMO, intentional. Understanding what really happened makes it more likely that folks will see moral leadership as the rare thing that it is and harder to pretend that individuals in the past ‘didn’t know’ enslavement was abhorrent. Both things implicate messaging that remains to this day in a variety of forms — namely that being ‘woke’ is a personal failing (abolitionists were the original woke mob), that following the status quo/zeitgeist is a defense against bad acts, and that erecting and sustaining monuments to the sheeple of their day makes any kind of sense whatsoever.
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“like” the original “woke” mob.
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Simultaneously claiming the abolitionists as talismans while declaiming your ancestors didn’t know of their own perfidy is a special kind of hypocrisy.
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You nailed it!
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HA! And look at me…a whole publicly educated student G1-12!
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And lest anyone think I am not being entirely fair or truthful, I’m just going to randomly select two of the first HBCUs, Hampton (VA) and Tuskeegee (AL) so folks can read about the biracial coalitions/founders/history of each institution. ‘Woke’ allyship?
Isn’t it remarkable that Hawaii gave us not only a president but also a radical Union general/abolitionist/education advocate? Also, the way newly freed individuals leveraged their political power (while it lasted) to secure access to formal schooling? Impressive.
Wikipedia (while crowd-sourced) is generally much more thorough and accurate in its retellings than most of what UDoC allowed to pass for education.
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The AMA Freedmen’s organization was always biracial, even before the war. My reply wasn’t a dissertation. It was a quick description of one group’s assistance in founding HBCUs.
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Well sure. It also was not a full explanation of how enslaved persons came by their ability to read, write, and teach nor was it a defense of the idea that white folks lead the effort to educate for unselfish reasons. You challenged my assertion that there weren’t scads of white folks on the front lines. There weren’t.
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Nor was it intended to be a full explanation as I just said. Don’t know why you ignore the fact the AMA was biracial from the 1830s. Quakers, who were white, did teach black children and work against slavery as part of their religious mission. None of this takes away from black persons who taught others in their communities.
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No one, certainly not me, is denying the role that those wacky Quakers played in advancing civil rights. I’m saying, and said in perfectly plain English, that the outsize attention their contribution receives is too often used to advance a white savior narrative. Abolitionists, which included white Quakers, advanced the stories of the enslaved but also included the formerly enslaved. Quakers were ALLIES and used their privilege to preserve and publish and disseminate the truth about slavery. They were not the chief architects or advancers of learning. They were participants and partners willing to listen and promote the arguments the enslaved, themselves, were making.
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No one, certainly not me, is denying the role that those wacky Quakers played in advancing civil rights. I’m saying, and said in perfectly plain English, that the outsize attention their contribution receives is too often used to advance a white savior narrative. Abolitionists, which included white Quakers, advanced the stories of the enslaved but also included the formerly enslaved. Quakers were ALLIES and used their privilege to preserve and publish and disseminate the truth about slavery. They were not the chief architects or advancers of learning. They were participants and partners willing to listen and promote the arguments the enslaved, themselves, were making.
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No one, certainly not me, is denying the role that those wacky Quakers played in advancing civil rights. I’m saying, and said in perfectly plain English, that the outsize attention their contribution receives is too often used to advance a white savior narrative. Abolitionists, which included white Quakers, advanced the stories of the enslaved but also included the formerly enslaved. Quakers were ALLIES and used their privilege to preserve and publish and disseminate the truth about slavery. They were not the chief architects or advancers of learning. They were participants and partners willing to listen and promote the arguments the enslaved, themselves, were making. My issue is with the advancement of the Quaker righteous over those who worked to advance the cause of freedom for themselves and others long before that. It took the Quakers 100 years, as small and fringy as they were, to find their way. https://www.pbs.org/thisfarbyfaith/journey_1/p_7.html
Depends on your definition of scads. From internet archive wayback machine: http://www.ucc.org/about-us/hidden-histories/blacks-and-the-american.html The American Missionary Association (AMA) and its predecessors, the Amistad Committee and the Union Missionary Society (UMS), covering the years 1839 to 1878 were “evangelical abolitionists.” “The AMA was founded by leaders of both races who had much in common: All were political abolitionists, members of the Liberty and the Free Soil parties; all were opposed to colonization (the return of blacks to Africa); and all were church members of liberal communions. Most of the whites were Congregationalists. The blacks were Congregational or Presbyterian ministers.”
“…Some of the schools in which the AMA played a major role is to see the scope of its influence in the field of education in the South: Howard University, Berea College, Hampton Institute, Atlanta University, Fisk University, Straight (now Dillard) University, Tougaloo College, Talladega College, LeMoyne (now LeMoyne-Owen) College, Tillotson (now Huston-Tillotson) College, Avery
Institute.”
re: ” Freedman’s Association and Freedmen’s Aid Society”
where was this located?
Also – I’m talking about the vast majority of blacks not the one or two who managed against all odds to get educated. But even those folks were usually not educated to the level of being able to matriculate in College and even if they could most Colleges in the South would not let them enroll.
You’re citing theMorril Act. Did it result in Colleges like VPI and UVA allowing blacks in?
It took a LONG TIME to evolve and in the meantime where did College-educated black teachers come from , say in 1870?
I suspect NOT in the SOUTH!
The bigger point here is that between Slavery, Jim Crow and discrimination, black folks often did not get a useful education, were denied owning property or running a business or even farming, getting a good job with a pension and health care.
There’s a reason why they have not as a race accumulated wealth compared to while people.
THe truth is in the data.
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This is why the DoC is such an insidious and hateful organization. They distorted history and prevented the dissemination of truth. Educated black people were largely the descendants of free black people and mulatto/quadroons/passing as white. People like Julia Quinn and Mary Lumpkin, Harriet Jacobs and Sally Hemings.
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You might need to educate Carol… not sure she knows this or if she does, says it… she believes someting else I think…….
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Oh yes, by all means, reeducate Carol. Can’t wait to see you try.
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Why the re? There’s no ‘re’ necessary if someone doesn’t know. It’s Black History Month. We can all crack a book.
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Why the re? There’s no ‘re’ necessary if someone doesn’t know. It’s Black History Month. We can all crack a book.
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Larry the G said you needed to reeducate Carol, the comments moderator on BR. I’m saying you lack the guts to do so.
Prove me wrong. Don’t get mad at me—LarryTheG has put you on the spot, not me.
I’m confident that neither you nor LarryTheG have the balls to “educate” Carol.
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I do not need or want to ‘re’ educate anyone. If I share something from which others learn, great. I don’t do schoolyard dares and have nothing to prove. This isn’t grade school.
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tough gig…. 😉
ya, she talks about schools that educate black folks but apparently not in the south, in fact, the South denied them education, even long after the civil war and even Jim Crow…
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So, man up and set Carol straight. What’s stopping you?
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I’m not a man?
Look for details below about southern locations.
I doubt he’s willing to learn enough to try. In 1865, a great-granduncle of one of my genealogy clients was a teacher. “The demands of patriotism seemed to call him to the education of the Freedmen, and he was one of the first on the field at Petersburg, Virginia. During the short labor of one year, he was robbed, publicly whipped, his school attacked by the mob, and saved only by a quarrel among the rioters themselves. At the close of the year, small-pox becoming epidemic at Petersburg, the Pennsylvania Freedman’s Relief Association, under whose auspices Mr. D. worked, called all the teachers home from that point.”
There were a number of such groups from various denominations.
Here’s the thing…white folks like to put themselves on the front lines of every struggle for freedom. To hear boomers tell it, they were all marching with King when, at the time of his death, 68% of Americans disapproved of him/his tactics. Abolitionists were fringy and their risks and sacrifices in the run up to the Civil war were minimal. The fugitive slave ads that go back a hundred years before the war, the narratives of the enslaved, the stories of their journey westward reveal the physical/emotional scars and abuse they suffered to gain their own freedom, to gain knowledge for themselves, to be seen as fully human men and women. I’m glad one of your clients’ ancestors participated in one of the schools but that’s hardly indicative of the role most white people played. Indeed, in the linked ads (VA only), numerous folks are identified as mulatto or yellow, owing to the fact that their mothers were raped and impregnated to create wealth for their captors. https://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/pds/maai/enslavement/text8/virginiarunawayads.pdf
“To hear boomers tell it, they were all marching with King when, at the time of his death, 68% of Americans disapproved of him/his tactics.” This is dead on. Dealing with many regressive VMI alums, you’d think that they were champions of Brown v. BOE and Virginia v. US, when in fact the exact opposite is true. They fought tooth and nail against it, but now take credit for being champions of equality. It’s false, an outright misrepresentation.
Yep. Revised history in action.
King was reviled by way more than now hug him.
The federal government established the Freedmen’s Bureau taking over from the religious organizations Freedmen’s groups…and it was a disaster.
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Why did it fail, Carol? Did it fail because it was operated by the feds or because it lacked arable land to distribute and the southern states began a terrorist campaign against newly freed persons using black codes and white bedsheets? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedmen's_Bureau
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Name names/sides/positions. Your video link lacks sourcing and is woefully tame/incomplete. That’s what’s wrong with the pablum conservatives are selling/have sold WRT history education. It’s incomplete, misleading. and as a result, inaccurate.
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sometimes can’t tell if they did not receive the education or they did but don’t want to acknowledge it but clear how VDOE wants to approach it.
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Who knows? I just know this mama didn’t homeschool no fools. Knowing where you came from and carrying the weight of your ancestors’ hopes and dreams is part of ensuring success.
You suspect wrongly. Maybe Not Today can coach you to improve your knowledge of the topic and not worry so much about mine.
From the AMA list: Howard University 1867, Washington, D.C., Berea College, 1855, Berea, KY, Hampton Institute, 1868, Hampton, VA, Atlanta University, 1867, Atlanta, GA, Fisk University, 1866,
Nashville, TN, Straight (now Dillard) University, 1868, New Orleans, LA, Tougaloo College, 1869, Jackson, MS,
Talladega College, 1867, Talladega, AL, LeMoyne (now LeMoyne-Owen)
College, 1862 Memphis, TN, Tillotson (now Huston-Tillotson)
College, 1877, Austin, TX, Avery Institute, 1865, Charleston, SC.
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It’s not knowledge of the subject at issue. It’s acknowledging the complete history of how black people were treated in the south as they tried to gain freedom and become educated. There were individuals and groups who did work on behalf of blacks, but there were also far larger groups and government working against them, denying them not only an education but jobs, land ownership, and what other “free” men had, and it continued for decades and had generational impacts on them that continues. It’s one thing to claim to be “knowledgeable” about subjects. It’s another to want to tell the whole story, the good , bad and ugly, admit the truth, and acknowledge the generational impacts of such treatment. “Coaching” for “knowledge” indeed.
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