A Voter Suppression Narrative in Which a Voter Scandalously… Er… Got to Vote

Liza Burrell-Aldana displays her “I Voted” sticker in a selfie.

Liza Burrell-Aldana, a Fairfax County school teacher, went to an early voting site last week and showed her driver’s license. The poll worker asked if she was a citizen. Burrell-Aldana, a Colombian immigrant who has been a citizen since 2011, said that she was. The poll worker asked for proof of citizenship. “Why would I carry that with me?” she replied.

So begins a Washington Post article in today’s news feed. Then the Post goes on to say:

The incident played out as Donald Trump and many Republicans have falsely claimed that waves of noncitizens are voting, stoking fears. Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin (R) has embraced the issue, pushing for a daily scrub of voter rolls. Voting rights activists throughout the country, meanwhile, are worried that this rhetoric will lead to eligible voters being harassed or afraid to cast their ballots.

See what’s going on here? The article slides from Donald Trump making false claims about noncitizens voting to Governor Glenn Youngkin “embracing the issue” by pushing for a daily scrub of voter rolls. There’s no quote of Youngkin making false claims, just an insinuation that he’s in the same camp as Trump and his stop-the-steal allies.

Then the Post goes on to describe voting-rights activists as worried that “this rhetoric” — whose rhetoric, Trump’s or Youngkin’s? — will lead eligible voters to being harassed or afraid to cast a vote.

In support of the voter-suppression narrative, the Post quotes Ryan Snow, a voting rights attorney, as saying that “incidents such as the one in Virginia” can be a barrier to voting.

The democracy-dies-in-darkness publication goes on to quote Burrell-Aldana as suggesting that the incident arose from bias. “I do look like a Latina and I sound like a Latina. I think that was the reason why.”

So… what became of Ms. Burrell-Aldana’s attempt to cast a ballot?

She was referred to a poll manager, who resolved the case and allowed her to vote.

Not only that, Fairfax County has “removed” the offending poll worker (whose version of the episode, incidentally, we never get to hear).

That’s where we are today: every time the voting qualifications of a naturalized citizen are questioned, regime media will elevate it into an issue of anti-immigrant bias and voter suppression. Regime media never tell us how often credentials are questioned for voters of all races, ethnicities, ages, and political persuasions.

My daughter was blocked from voting some 15 to 20 years ago when she moved from Wyoming back to Richmond and failed to transfer her registration in time. Tough cookies, kid. No Washington Post reporter elevated the incident into a sinister assault on voter rights. Similarly, my sister was denied the right to vote one year. I can’t remember the circumstances. All I can say for sure is that no mercy was shown.

I myself was briefly halted from voting several years ago. As I recall, I had changed my residence but my driver’s license didn’t reflect the fact. I was referred to a poll manager who resolved the discrepancy and allowed me to vote. I didn’t get outraged. It was a minor hassle, and I understood that rules and procedures must be followed.

There are roughly 160 million registered voters in the U.S. Millions move to new addresses every year. Millions change their names. Millions register for the first time. Millions die and drop off. Keeping track of all that activity is a monumental data-management challenge, especially when administration of the voter rolls is fragmented among thousands of local governments. It is inevitable that cases will arise in which poll managers are called in to resolve questions.

Regime media make much of the fact that a Georgia audit showed that only 20 noncitizens were registered to vote there. The implication: noncitizen voting just isn’t a problem. But then, regime media have yet to document one instance of an eligible Virginia voter being unable to cast a vote due to being scrubbed from the voter rolls.

Virginians of both political parties work hard to bolster election integrity in Virginia. The steal-the-vote people need to get a grip. Votes aren’t being stolen in the Old Dominion. And the voter-suppression people need to take a chill pill. Naturalized citizens aren’t being denied the right to vote. Voting is easier than ever. Here in Virginia, the system is working.

 


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110 responses to “A Voter Suppression Narrative in Which a Voter Scandalously… Er… Got to Vote”

  1. WizeMaxcy Avatar

    I have voted the last 4 elections without showing i.d. and intend to do so again tomorrow. I sign a confirmation of i.d. This is a real ballot, not provisional. The piece of paper that one signs is your i.d. You get a real ballot (not a provisional) and feed it into the machine. I have had to help poll workers get me the correct form since they are not used to this. What a ridiculous law, thank you Demonrats.

    Do I need an ID to vote?
    Voters may provide either an acceptable form of ID or sign an ID Confirmation Statement at the polls.

    For a detailed list of acceptable IDs, click here – (Espaรฑol) (ํ•œ๊ตญ์–ด) (Tiแบฟng Viแป‡t)
    * Your DMV license may be used at any time. Virginia law permits an expired DMV license to be used for voting purposes.

    Can I vote if I forget my ID?
    Yes! If you get to your polling place without acceptable ID, you can sign an ID statement affirming your identity, you will be able to vote a regular ballot.

    If you do not sign an ID statement to affirm your identity you may vote a provisional ballot. You will be provided instructions to ensure your vote will count.

  2. so the reporter never investigated WHY she was not on the voter rolls?
    was it the DMV debacle? did she check the wrong box? did she not follow instructions and failed to check either box? inquiring minds [something terribly lacking at the WaPo] want to know.

    Remember this episode is part of the voter roll correction taken because of non-citz being registered to vote at the DMV…….

    ….where we're relying on the worst, most inefficient, most hated government entity to be involved in the most important aspect of being a citizen.
    anyone see a problem with that?

    the simple solution… stop motor voter registration. problem solved!

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      This person WAS ON the poll book, presented proper ID and was still challenged. As explained elsewhere, no, not provisional.

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        Seems like this poll worker did not train well.

  3. Marty Chapman Avatar
    Marty Chapman

    The provisional ballot is the failsafe option.

  4. Stephen Haner Avatar
    Stephen Haner

    Problem #11 in the "What If" instruction manual given to us Virginia election officers. I have it right here for my pre-election review. If a voter is challenged, both the election officer making the challenge and the voter go to the "Affirmation of Eligibility" form. If the voter signs the affirmation form, then the pollbook will reflect they did so, and they just cast a normal ballot. The challenger also has to sign the form and assert "to the best of my knowledge, information and belief" the person is not qualified for one of several reasons. Not being a citizen is the first possible reason listed.

    If the only reason the person had to issue the challenge was the voter's accent or ethnicity, then they were rightfully removed from the job. Likewise if the challenger declined to sign the challenge form then the person acted unfairly in challenging the citizen. You think no problemo, Jim, but if this happens to scores of voters and the lines get even crazier it basically shuts down the poll. An EO needs to be sure before challenging a voter on the poll book who has presented ID properly. If somebody walks in and gives the name of somebody I know, and I know they are not that person, I'd probably issue a challenge. But I'd have to be damn sure.

    1. "If this happens to scores of voters and the lines get even crazier it basically shuts down the poll."

      I guess we'll find out tomorrow if that's a real problem or not.

      1. Stephen Haner Avatar
        Stephen Haner

        I quiver with anticipation…I don't do check-in. ๐Ÿ™‚

      2. LarrytheG Avatar

        only from "regime" media though, right?

      3. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        It's extremely real to those purged in error, the collateral damage to a non-urgent issue.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          It's one thing for a random error to happen in an individuals right to vote. Sometimes things do happen especially with address changes.

          THIS is NOT that. This is a systematic removal of valid voters without doing even rudimentary due diligence – which you would EXPECT SBE to do – and to do so with integrity. That went away with Youngkin'd partisan meddling with the process.

          It's clear now, to me, he IS a partisan and WILLING to corrupt the election process.

          Bad Karma. THIS has actually damaged election integrity.

          1. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
            f/k/a_tmtfairfax

            Larry, what information would a state board of elections have to change a voter registration application that indicated the registrant was not a U.S. citizen?

          2. LarrytheG Avatar

            Do you think it would come from a non citizen answering so on a DMV form?

            DO you think SBE would believe someone to be a non-citizen based on an answer to an optional question on a DMV form? Do you THINK that DMV would know they were a non-citizen and not report it to SBE?

        2. Lefty665 Avatar

          The error was the registrants failure to check the citizenship box on the DMV form. There is no reason Virginia should register voters who have not asserted that they are citizens. Removing those who fail to do so and were registered in error is not an error, it is a correction.

          If some have subsequently become citizens then use the INS citizenship rolls to register voters in addition to DMV reports.

        3. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
          f/k/a_tmtfairfax

          Clearly, there could be an error whereby a citizen of the U.S. indicated citizenship but was marked in the voting records as a non-citizen. That person should be able to present citizenship information and vote. Further, after the election, the SBE should conduct a root cause analysis to determine why these errors occurred and develop fixes.

          On the other hand, if a person applies for a DL or simply registers to vote and indicates non-citizenship, it's only reasonable for the SBE to remove that person from the voter's list. The individual made the mistake and needs to fix it.

          The removal of the voting staff was the correct thing to do. Absent a person trying to correct his/her citizenship status at the polls, there is no reason to request citizenship information at the polls.

          What many seem to be ignoring is the right of a voting citizen to have her or his vote diluted by an illegal voter.' Federal district judge Stephen Locher wrote yesterday in denying an attempt by the ACLU and others to enjoin the removal of non-citizens from the voters roster in Iowa, โ€œWhatever concerns Plaintiffs might have about the nature and timing of Secretary Pateโ€™s letter, it would not be appropriate for the Court to respond by granting injunctive relief that effectively forces local election officials to allow ineligible voters to vote.โ€

          Guess who nominated Locher to the bench?

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            If the person filling in the DMV form made a mistake, it's their fault?

            SO if they checked that they ARE a citizen, then SBE takes their word for it and registers them to vote? I bet not.

            SO , if non-citizen is checked, they just remove them without further verification?

            What if neither box is checked?

  5. Eric the half a troll Avatar
    Eric the half a troll

    โ€œI myself was briefly halted from voting several years ago. As I recall, I had changed my residence but my driverโ€™s license didnโ€™t reflect the fact. I was referred to a poll manager who resolved the discrepancy and allowed me to vote. I didnโ€™t get outraged. It was a minor hassle, and I understood that rules and procedures must be followed.โ€

    And you were asked to provide evidence of your citizenship thenโ€ฆ rightโ€ฆ?โ€ฆ smhโ€ฆ

    1. Stephen Haner Avatar
      Stephen Haner

      Nothing in the rules allows an election officer or precinct chief to demand proof of citizenship. That was bogus. They can demand somebody fill out and sign that affirmation.

      Issues caused by people who have moved and didn't update their address on the pollbook are sadly quite common, especially with the voters who only show up in a presidential race.

      1. DJRippert Avatar

        So, if you are not a citizen but you "accidentally" check the "I'm a citizen" box at the DMV, get on the rolls and then vote … how would anybody know?

        Are the voting rolls checked for non-citizens after the election? If so, checked against what?

          1. DJRippert Avatar

            Here's your truth table:

            Section not completed. I assume you are not automatically registered to vote.

            "Not a citizen" completed accurately. Not registered to vote.

            "I am a citizen" completed correctly. Registered to vote.

            "Not a citizen" completed inaccurately. Not registered to vote but should be able to vote. Provisional ballot.

            "I am a citizen" completed inaccurately. Registered to vote. Potential illegal vote.

            How did the non-citizens get on the voter rolls?

        1. Lefty665 Avatar

          Exactly, there seems to be no process to identify crimes of commission, falsely asserting citizenship and voting. For that to happen there have been two crimes, first the false assertion of citizenship, and second the act of a non citizen voting.

          My guess is that is a very small number, but I have no way to know if that is so.

          1. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
            f/k/a_tmtfairfax

            And there are a lot fewer mass murderers than speeders. So, prosecute only the former.

            A voter has a right not to have his/her vote cancelled by an illegal vote.

        2. LarrytheG Avatar

          You would hope that SBE would have a process that did not rely on check-boxes alone.

          People can and do register to vote without going to DMV. That would be the default process for any new voter, I would think.

      2. Lefty665 Avatar

        People who moved and changed polling places was one of the issues in Georgia in 2020. There were about 30,000 people, verified by comparison of USPS change of addresses and pollbooks, who voted at their old, and no longer valid addresses more than 30 days after they had notified the USPS they had moved.

        They should not have been permitted to vote, but were. Would that have changed the outcome? Who knows, but with the state decided by about 19,000 votes it could have. Its failure to be heard was but one example of Giuliani's and Powell's inept challenges.

  6. Lefty665 Avatar

    Sounds like removing the EO was a good call.

    A question I have had about the related issue of DMV registrations is why with an error of omission like failure to check the citizen box that people are registered to vote?

    It would seem logical that the process would be the reverse of what it is. People would be required to attest to their citizenship to register to vote rather than the state removing them from rolls after they have been enrolled without asserting citizenship.

    What we have not seen in this whole kerfuffle is if there are non citizens who are registered, because they have checked the citizen box, and have voted. Dunno how the state would discern that error.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      DMV is not in the business of vetting for citizenship while SBE is. Some who checked the non-citizen box on the DMV form subsequently took an oath of citizenship – some did so years ago. Yet, the Gov waited till the 90th day to purge. According to the Gov some 6000 were suspected – not verified -as being non-citizens. Some checked the box (as one VA voter stated) in error and had voted subsequently a number of times.

      1. Lefty665 Avatar

        My question was why the SBE would register people to vote who had not checked the I am a citizen box on the DMV form. Was it a DMV issue or a SBE issue?

        It is good that Virginia has a process for people to establish eligibility. It was not a purge. That is prohibited. It was individualized removal for cause, with remedies provided.

        Again, there is apparently no way for Virginia to verify that assertions of citizenship on the DMV form are valid. Omissions were caught, but commissions are apparently only self identified. Be nice if both kinds of errors were flagged before they turn into votes, even inadvertently.

    2. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Since the suspect names and other ID are known, execute a computer match of the suspects to actual voters in an election. Investigate and prosecute violators. It's suspect when the purge is executed on the 90th day of the federal ban.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        It would have been super easy to run such a check and verify valid voters.

  7. walter smith Avatar
    walter smith

    "Virginians of both political parties work hard to bolster election integrity in Virginia. The steal-the-vote people need to get a grip. Votes arenโ€™t being stolen in the Old Dominion. And the voter-suppression people need to take a chill pill. Naturalized citizens arenโ€™t being denied the right to vote. Voting is easier than ever. Here in Virginia, the system is working"

    Doing my own Politifact (except I tell the truth) – I would rate as Mostly True
    I think the only unsupported – maybe illy defined – is "Votes aren't being stolen in the Old Dominion." Is that meant to say there are NO violations? No cheating? If so, I would say impossible, and the question would be "how wrong?" If saying there is no "stealing"/flipping/throwing away of votes – I'd largely agree.

    The single biggest issue everywhere is voter rolls. A huge vulnerability that unscrupulous people can exploit. And then specific to Virginia – my concern is why does Fairfax always turn in late? Highly suspicious, and likely has the highest number of bad registrations…

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      One reason that Fairfax is usually so late is that it has an inordinate number of mail-in overseas ballots, which, until recently, could not be processed until after the polls closed.

      1. walter smith Avatar
        walter smith

        OK. That’s one. So why not all the precincts report?

  8. LarrytheG Avatar

    You can BET that SBE is not going to take a YES on a citizen box at face value. They ARE going to vett it so that it IS validated BEFORE they put that person on the voter rolls – as they should.

    But apparently, no equivalent amount of vetting is done for the NO – that COULD be a mistake – especially for a longtime voter getting their license renewed who missed that box.

    This is totally irresponsible on the part of SBE AND the Governor and in my mind tantamount to voter suppression which to me hardens back to the days when this kind of thing was done with a wink and a nod to kick people off the rolls.

    In my mind, Youngkin has showed his true colors on this. No more masquerading as a "good" governor, he's joined the ranks of those who are fine and dandy kicking valid voters off the rolls – even as they talk piously about "election integrity". Grump!

    1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
      Dick Hall-Sizemore

      There is no vetting on the YES answer. That would be an overwhelming task for SBE. I think the major problems arose from two circumstances: 1. people who did not check either box (SBE considered that a de facto "No" and folks who were naturalized after they had gotten a drivers' license who could not correct the DMV information.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Maybe I’m confused. There is no vetting on an assertion that someone IS a citizen? THey’d not verify?

        Do people who fill out this DMV form KNOW that SBE is going to process it also?

      2. DJRippert Avatar

        1. people who did not check either box (SBE considered that a de facto "No"

        I don't believe that to be true.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Then advise all after investigation how the 6000 or 1600 registrants were identified. According to multiple reports, failure to check and checking prompted some to be on the lists for scrubbing.

  9. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    Gadzooks! Is JAB pretending to ignore political messaging? Only "regime media" reporting? A simple check on VPAP discloses that the matter and errors purging innocent voters occurred in several VA locations.

    However, the main point of the post was to downplay the seriousness of the purge, make it seem inconsequential. The voter questioned was Hispanic with a speaking accent. Not hearing the poll worker's version is pure pap. As SH indicated it's not within the rules. So, the post's bottom line is (like the threat to VP Pence) so what!! Doesn't bother me!!! So what if such behavior delays or takes time of other voters in line!! Delay the results so that candidates can allege cheating due to a Red or Blue mirage.

    Mr. Bacon, tear down this post.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Yes. Paper after paper is reporting on this but it's "regime" media!

      And yes, he dismisses it out of hand – UNLIKE Steve who KNOWs
      what this really is and admits it.

      Sometimes I think JAB wanders into the brier patch. Sometimes I'm not sure it's entirely accidental.

  10. Lefty665 Avatar

    Once again it was not a purge no matter how much you keep calling it that. It was individualized removal for cause that is legal.

    Virginia knows the registrants in question. Why let them commit crimes and prosecute violators rather than helping to keep honest people honest and preventing them from breaking the law even inadvertently in the first place? Are you a lawyer advocating for law breaking so you can troll for criminal clients or something?

    Prevention seems a better remedy than a post election dragnet. As the old saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      โ€œCauseโ€ denotes more than a default or affirmative bit of proof (not evidence). Tom Cruise in Minority Report nabbed criminals before the offense. The nationโ€™s legal system does not function on guess work. VA had plenty of time to scrub the suspect data more than 90 days before the election. VA would not be condoning crime by post-election monitoring. My โ€œsomethingโ€ is being civil and avoiding insults. The collateral damage to innocent voters prevented nothing, except the extraction of flesh from a few – the reason many old sayings are stale.

    2. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      From the VA DMV website:

      If you are a citizen of the United States and wish to apply to register to vote, answer the citizenship and voter registration questions on the form with โ€œYes.โ€

      If you answer โ€œYesโ€ to both questions, you will be given a paper voter registration application either in person or by mail.

      A large number of online materials about the issue employ the term "purge" meaning to excise an unwanted quality or condition. Scrub's OK for discussion purposes.

      1. DJRippert Avatar

        So, according to Dick (above), if I don't complete the boxes, I will be purged from the voting rolls.

        That would be completely screwed up since (personally) I know I am already registered to vote and wouldn't even consider checking those boxes.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          There are two questions requesting Yes or No responses. We read the DHS post differently.

      2. Lefty665 Avatar

        That's nice, but that is not how it has worked. People have been registered in error via DMV to vote even though they did not answer yes to the are you a citizen question. Virginia is correcting a registration error.

        A "purge" within 90 days of an election is prohibited by law. Individualized removals for cause are permitted at any time. It does matter what you call the removal both legally and for discussion purposes.

        1. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Now, purge, even if only in quotes, is acceptable?

        2. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          BR readers are awaiting info on โ€œ how it has workedโ€ in past administrations. What is the proof (not evidence) โ€œPeople have been registered in error via DMV to vote even though they did not answer yes to the are you a citizen question.โ€ Oh, those are the cohort whoโ€™ve legally voted in past elections. Got it. NOT.

  11. LarrytheG Avatar

    One of the interesting things about Virginia Drivers Licenses, is that they
    REQUIRE a street address, not a mailing address AND there is no real process for letting DMV know if you have moved. In fact, if a cop stops you,
    he/she may not even know that you have moved! All they have to check on is DMV records (as far as I know). On top of that, how would SBE know of any different address for you if you failed to let either of them know?

    Think about this in terms of voting when you show up and the poll workers
    are checking your DL with their own database. You've moved. They have no record of it. The main thing is that you don't appear on poll book of the precinct you've showed up at for your new residential address.

    How does this "work"? If they don't have you on their poll book, and you vote provisionally, how do they vett you and how long does it take to do it?

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        "completion of this section is requested but not required".

    1. I do not get mail delivery at home. My drivers license has my POBox not my street address. I use my voters registration card with street address for voting for comparison to the poll book.

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        But, you have to have a street address to vote. So, the homeless have no say.

  12. LarrytheG Avatar

    When I did this job, there was no training and no script about how to do the job, do's and don'ts etc. It was more sit down and emulated the other more experience poll worker! And I DID see some folks doing this job, decide to do MORE than the basic "can I see your ID" and then ask them to report their address to see if it matched their DL.
    If they looked at the DL ahead of time, they knew how to answer even if they no longer lived at that address. At that point, it becomes a question of what is on the pollbook. What's on the pollbook , the address that is on the pollbook – especially if it is different from the DL – where did it come from?

  13. James McCarthy Avatar
    James McCarthy

    Again, itโ€™s not an error to report where one is not a citizen if true at the time only to take a citizenship oath subsequently.

    1. Lefty665 Avatar

      It is not, and those people should be registered to vote when they become citizens, perhaps using the INS naturalization rolls. It is an error to register those people to vote before they are citizens, and it is NOT an error to remove them if they have been registered while non citizens.

      1. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        Your grievance is with VA Elections. No one except you has said it is "NOT an error to remove them if they have been registered while non citizens." That is unless you suspect r believe some non-citizens fraudulently completed DMV voter info.

        1. Lefty665 Avatar

          Well, someone has to be right. It is not an error to remove non citizens who have been wrongly registered to vote. It does not have to be fraud, it can be a simple mistake. That seems so obvious that even a lawyer could understand it. The law specifically permits individualized removal of ineligible voters from the rolls. It is really pretty simple, and why the SC stayed the mistaken district court decision.

      2. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        Who or how โ€œshouldโ€ they be registered upon taking the oath? Where an individual check the โ€œNoโ€ box as not a citizen, SBE ought not to enrol that person.

  14. DJRippert Avatar

    This seems minor compared to what happened in Portland was rumored to have happened in Portland, Bucks County, Pa to our armed forces members.

    Portland – Two ballot boxes burned with an incendiary device with "Free Gaza" slogans attached. While the presidential election results are not in much question in Washington or Oregon, Oregonโ€™s GOP-held 5th Congressional District and Washington stateโ€™s Democratic-held 3rd Congressional District are considered toss-ups.

    Bucks County – Rumor: voters told that the polling place would close before they got in to vote. Apparently, if you are in line by closing time, you are supposed to be able to vote. Judge extended "early" voting in PA (although PA doesn't really support early vote in person).

    US Military personnel – Active duty service members claim the Pentagon has not allocated enough resources to let them cast their ballot on time and that the stockpile of write-in absentee ballots on at least one military base is depleted and has not been replenished. Historically, active duty US military members lean heavily Republican.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      One of the reasons trained and professional workers (not mere bureaucrats) staff state polling operations is to respond to rumors. Repeating rumors reinforces only suspicions. Who are the โ€œFree Gazaโ€ culprits? Who told the Bucks voters polling places were closed or closing? Who and/or how many active duty service members claimed?

      1. DJRippert Avatar

        I don't know and, right now, I don't care who the culprits are who put "free Gaza" on the incendiary devices that burned the ballots in the boxes. It happened and it's a form of election cheating.

        Here's what the judge wrote about Bucks County … "The docket from the Common Pleas of Bucks County, Pennsylvania states, "Defendants [Bucks County Board of Election] actions in turning away voters who sought to apply for a mail-in ballot and receive one in person before the deadline of 5 p.m. on Oct. 29, violated the Pennsylvania Election Code. Defendants shall permit any persons who wishes to apply for, receive, vote, and return a mail-in ballot to appear at the Elections Bureau office and do so during normal business hours before the close of business on Nov. 1."

        Bucks County violated the law. Once again, election cheating.

        How many more cases will be uncovered?

        I doubt that the sum total of all this will change the outcome of the election. But the "head in the sand" view of many on this site is that there is never election cheating.

        There is always election cheating. It's just a question of how much.

        1. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
          Dick Hall-Sizemore

          The Bucks County case was not that clear-cut.
          Pennsylvania has a process known as โ€œon demand mail ballot votingโ€ in which a voter shows up at the elections office, requests a mail ballot, fills it out, and returns it all in the same visit. The procedure is not spelled out in the stateโ€™s election code, but it has become sort of a de facto in-person early voting. This year, there was strong demand for this type of voting. The deadline for requesting mail ballots in person was Oct. 29. When it was apparent that the lines were so long that voters would not be able to reach the front by the time the election office closed at 5 p.m., the election officials told voters they would not be able to participate. However, voters were told they could apply for a mail ballot by submitting a paper application or filling out an online form.
          The Trump campaign sued. The judge ruled in favor of the campaign. Although there were no statutory provisions that folks in line at 5:00 would be allowed to submit a request for a mail in person, his decision seemed to be based on a desire to ensure that as many people who wanted to would get a chance to vote and by a post on X by the State Department of Elections that people in line at 5:00 to apply for a mail ballot would be allowed to do so.
          Sort of hard to claim that someone was โ€œcheatingโ€ when there were no laws or rules to go by. https://penncapital-star.com/election-2024/pennsylvania-trump-court-transcript-offers-insight-into-bucks-county-on-demand-voting-decision/

          1. LarrytheG Avatar

            Right. Letting more people vote (or not) is not "cheating" nor favoring a particular candidate, much less some kind of coordinated conspiracy to defraud a particular candidate but it gets asserted that way in the narratives.

            call it "cheating" and say it's to benefit a particular candidate… not!

          2. Dick Hall-Sizemore Avatar
            Dick Hall-Sizemore

            Furthermore, one of the three voters that submitted complaints in Trump's court filing did submit an application for an absentee ballot. It was printed and waiting for her at the elections office. The other two could have done the same. Under Jim Bacon's reasoning, this was no big deal.

          3. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
            f/k/a_tmtfairfax

            No, letting more people vote is not the purpose of the law. Voting laws are designed to allow eligible voters to vote in the location where they are qualified, to prevent eligible voters from voting in a location where they are not qualified to vote, and to prevent ineligible people from voting anywhere.

            Each state and the federal government have requirements for registration and voting. If one does not satisfy those requirements, one cannot vote. Why is this controversial? If a person doesn't check the U.S. citizenship box and, when required, provide appropriate documentation, the law requires that such person not be permitted to vote.

            Any person can go to https://www.usa.gov/confirm-voter-registration . Then click https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote . Pick one's state and see whether one is registered. How hard is that? If a person doesn't have internet at home or on a cellphone, one can go to a local library and check the records.

            If one sees that there is a discrepancy, the individual can contact the state election office to fix the problem or bring appropriate documents and register at the polls. If one is not eligible to vote but is on the voter's list, doesn't that person have a moral duty to contact the state/county and fix that problem too?

        2. James McCarthy Avatar
          James McCarthy

          Camaraderie to agree with JAB with "so what" if rumors are repeated as evidence of cheating in elections as all know it exists. And I thought BR was a platform for credible discussion. All await breathlessly for your subsequent posts regarding the many more cases to be uncovered.

  15. LarrytheG Avatar

    We have folks, longtime voters, doing business at DMV who have NO IDEA that DMV is doing anything with their paperwork beyond DMV. THey have no idea that DMV is communicating anything about them to SBE. Why would they think that if they already had a DL for years and were voters for years? All they think is they are doing routine business with DMV and not a thing with SBE. The motor-voter thing was primarily for NEW Dls not renewals or other DMV business for existing DL holders.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Deefness my dad pronounced the term. Too much Sgt Schultz defense operating.

  16. LarrytheG Avatar

    I think there IS cheating, always has been at the local level but is there essentially a widespread conspiracy of coordinated cheating across many election districts to elect one particular guy/gal?

    And if there is , where is the evidence of it?

  17. DJRippert Avatar

    The problem is that with the election coming down to a few swing states you don't need widespread cheating. You need targeted cheating.

    Is that happening?

    IMO, not in Virginia.

    Elsewhere?

    Who knows. Probably not but nobody can say definitely not.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      I don’t see how it could happen. It would take a cabal of election workers who had the ability
      to do it. It’s really “out there”. There is zero evidence of it… When we ask this question, people
      come back with the local cheating and say if that is possible, the bigger conspiracy is.

      The whole exercise basically undermines confidence in elections because so many people are
      willing to believe lies and conspiracy theories these days.

  18. DJRippert Avatar

    "On the other hand, if a person applies for a DL or simply registers to vote and indicates non-citizenship, it's only reasonable for the SBE to remove that person from the voter's list."

    How did they get on the voting list to begin with?

    Are there a lot of people who once were citizens but now are not living in the United States?

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Yes. Wouldn't SBE itself want to know this?
      Seems like if they got a "not a citizen" on that form, they'd WANT to check to see HOW LONG they have been on the rolls rather than just remove them without further looking.

      1. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
        f/k/a_tmtfairfax

        How could they do this consistently? What about people who move from one part of the state to another? Or between states? And the fact that a name was on a voting list before does not in and of itself prove that the name was there correctly?

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          How? THey’d follow their same process each time? Here’s a question. Do “we” KNOW what process
          SBE follows to validate new voters or existing voters who have moved or are we essentially guessing?

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      You’re equating robo calls with a conspiracy of election officials?

      1. DJRippert Avatar

        I am describing a method of election cheating. That's my point – you don't need a conspiracy of election officials to perpetuate fraud.

        It wasn't the election officials in Bucks County.
        It wasn't election official that put the incendiary devices in the ballot boxes.
        It wasn't election officials who created an alleged situation where military bases ran out of ballots.

        There are lots of ways to cheat.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          robo-calls have been around a LONG TIME and have never been equated to cheating by election officials.
          Both sides have done robo-calls and similar. How can one claim it’s a “conspiracy” to commit fraud?
          It’s not.

      2. James McCarthy Avatar
        James McCarthy

        Sadly, you are debating with the "weave", the brilliant tactic from P45. The Earth is flat b/c I can conceive it is. Now election cheating is equated an absence of rules s in PA; with political vandalism without knowledge of motives; an "alleged" shortage of military ballots. Glib contrarianism.

  19. LarrytheG Avatar

    If the section is not required to be completed, how does the person KNOW that it’s STILL going to
    be sent to SBE AND acted on as if the boxes were required to be checked?

    Even then, how would SBE , NOT validate the answers at all? They surely would not take the
    assertion that someone IS a citizen without verifying it , right?

    So , they’d just take the other not-a-citizen as gospel truth without validating it , not even checking
    if that person is on the voting rolls and for years?

    1. DJRippert Avatar

      If you check an optional box dedicated to voter registration saying you are not a citizen – what should the government do?

      You have individually, optionally said you are not a citizen.

      At some point people have to be responsible for their errors.

      They can still vote. It just requires a provisional ballot.

      If you're so stupid that (despite being already legally registered to vote) you inaccurately complete an optional part of a form declaring that you are ineligible to vote … any inconvenience at the polling place is on you.

      1. LarrytheG Avatar

        Do they KNOW that the answer IS going to SBE if it says it does not have to be filled in ?

        If someone is a long-time voter, AND is renewing a license (not getting the first time), do you think
        they would conceive that one of the check boxes COULD get them removed as a voter? Really?

        I don’t think people realize that an “optional” box could get them removed as a voter.
        At the VERY LEAST – SBE ought to ask and verify BEFORE they remove a long-standing voter
        over a silly mistake. THAT’s what’s DUMB imo.

  20. LarrytheG Avatar

    If the boxes are optional, one might think they would not result in anything other than a statistic sample or the like, not getting them removed as a voter!

    1. DJRippert Avatar

      They don't get removed. Failing to check the boxes does not get you removed from the voting rolls.

      I renewed my license 5 months ago. I did not check any voter registration boxes (since I am alrady registered). I was on the rolls and voted last Thursday.

      Now, if it is an application for an original license (as opposed to a renewal) maybe failing to check those boxes get you pulled.

      That shouldn't be the case.

      You should only get pulled from the rolls if you check the "I'm not a citizen" box.

  21. DJRippert Avatar

    I just renewed my license, about 5 months ago. I didn't check any box indicating that I want to register to vote because I am already registered to vote. I went to the polling place, I was on the rolls, and I voted.

    I would have had to check the "I'm not a citizen" box to be removed from the rolls.

    No?

  22. LarrytheG Avatar

    re: "Now, if it is an application for an original license (as opposed to a renewal) maybe failing to check those boxes get you pulled."

    yes. If you're a longtime voter renewing a license? …. what happens?
    you just get removed over a mistake on the form?

  23. Lefty665 Avatar

    No, I was just quoting your language, but "m*r*n" seems appropriate.

    1. James McCarthy Avatar
      James McCarthy

      Agreed. The "purge" or scrub has been initiated and supported by low intelligent folks.

      1. Lefty665 Avatar

        Exactly, your pejorative language, not either Virginia's or the law. Used by "Low intelligent folks" in your own words. I couldn't have said it better myself.

  24. Chip Gibson Avatar
    Chip Gibson

    And, since voting in the Commonwealth is secure, get out there and vote! But, before voting, review the Commonwealth of Virginia Constitution, Bill of Rights, Section 3 (Pay very, very close attention to that part concerning and following "maladministration", the current administration – you'll then know what to do as a community.)
    "That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation, or community; of all the various modes and forms of government, that is best which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety, and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and, whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, inalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter, or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the public weal."

  25. LarrytheG Avatar

    all over the map!

  26. LarrytheG Avatar

    I have to tell you, I was/am totally wrong on this. On my own DL is "P.O. Box"! I think that years and years ago, the rule was it had to be a street address but that rule went away.

    I don't know if I had a choice of what to put on my current DL – pobox or street address so I don't know what the policy
    is. It still strikes me as not being able to use the DL to establish a physical presence for voter purposes

    NOW, I have to figure out WHY for the last few elections, when asked what my address was – I confidently gave them my Street Address while they were holding my DL and looking at the PO BOX and they have never called me on it.
    Perhaps they are looking at the PollBook for the address and at my DL for my picture?

    At any rate, I was wrong. My bad.

  27. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Elides? I do not think this word means what you think it means.

  28. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    โ€œShe was referred to a poll manager, who resolved the case and allowed her to vote.โ€

    Yes, because Virginia is a same day registration State. And, hers was a โ€œprovisional ballotโ€.

    In 2022, 25,000 votes were cast under the new provision of same-day voting. I guess thereโ€™s a motive? Slow the count? Cast doubt?

    There is a benefit. If the poll managers keep track of those who then choose not to cast a vote, you can get an estimate of non-citizen registration, sort of, maybe.

    Hey! Hereโ€™s an idea! Letโ€™s do away with voter registration lists and everybody cast ballots under the same-day provision! Then, you Republicans wonโ€™t have to worry about non-citizens registering to vote.

  29. I think we should have the same qualifications to vote as we have to comply with to buy a gun. Problem solved.

    1. Nancy Naive Avatar
      Nancy Naive

      So none. I agree. Instead of a list of preferred voters, we should free the political parties to create preferred legislation and develop their powers of persuasion.

    2. LarrytheG Avatar

      You mean have a registry of where you live and what guns you have?

  30. LarrytheG Avatar

    how does SBE get your street address? How does it get updated if you move and change your DR? Does SBE get that info from DMV when you update your DL if your DL has POBOX on it?

  31. Nancy Naive Avatar
    Nancy Naive

    Itโ€™s a conundrum.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      Yep. There is not complete knowledge of how SBE processes work and I suspect there is a certain
      mindset that it’s not a good thing for explicit knowledge of it should be in the public realm.

      But looking at the DMV form, where the part about citizen is OPTIONAL. Say, someone who was not
      a citizen that went to DMV to get what they could in terms of DL/ID, and they CHOSE TO NOT fill in
      the citizenship box, AND that form goes to SBE, what does SBE do – based on the info that is on
      that form (and not)?

      1. Nancy Naive Avatar
        Nancy Naive

        Decisions based on incomplete and missing data. If they base the decision on only affirmative responses then thatโ€™s one thing. If they include non-response, then theyโ€™re guessing.

        1. LarrytheG Avatar

          How does SBE even know someone has moved if they did not go to DMV?

  32. f/k/a_tmtfairfax Avatar
    f/k/a_tmtfairfax

    Once again, Larry, what information would a state's election board have to verify whether the person who indicated that he or she was not a citizen was correct? How can they check?

    And if a person does not check either box, that person has not affirmatively asserted citizenship.

    Back when we all took standardized tests by filing in the little circles, what happened if one didn't fill a circle or didn't fully fill in the circle? Remember the teacher's reminders? What happened was, the student got that question wrong? Why, in your world, is no one responsible for their decisions and mistakes?

    Legally registered voters have a right to vote and a right not to have their votes cancelled by votes from people not authorized to vote.

    1. LarrytheG Avatar

      TMT – look at this form:

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/36273ef482855898efefaccff3aee665cecd962606167addb376e18a3009cb6a.png
      do you see this part: that says optional?

      If it's not filled in , what does SBE do?

      do they "guess"?

      further more, where is the SS number that SBE needs? How do they get that if not on this form?

  33. Lefty665 Avatar

    No can do, Larry has blocked me so I can't see his posts, for which I am eternally grateful.

    Your dragging the straw man of ERIC across the discussion of using INS rolls to register voters is worthless blather. You a lawyer or sumpthin'?

  34. LarrytheG Avatar

    TMT – remember how voter suppression used to work . A series of rules that people didn’t know about and thus they were effectively discouraged from voting?

    Really did happen, right?

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