We Need to Help That Poor Billionaire Out
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73 responses to “We Need to Help That Poor Billionaire Out”
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Yep. Once again, a very legitimate Virginia issue that has zero to do with the culture war, the ‘intolerant left’, leftists, CRT, DEI, vaccine mandates and gawd knows what other Conservative boogeymen hiding in the bushes!
Thank You!
Tax Increment financing seems to be most appropriate if it involves redevelopment of a blighted community and/or development of an area
that has not yet reached it’s full potential.I can see how and why NoVa wants it in some respects , i.e. tax revenue from development that may not produce many kids to educate!
But the “NoVa is a traffic hellhole” folks will have their say, I’m sure.
Again, thanks for the break from the more typical BR fare these days.
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“redevelopment of a blighted community and/or development of an area that has not yet reached it’s full potential”
It’s a little hard to define an area that has among the highest per capita incomes in the country as “blighted”. Unless you figure that a football stadium is the “full potential” of an area it is equally hard to define the area as “not yet reached its full potential.”
The franchise has a value much greater than the cost of a stadium. Why use public revenue to subsidize it? Dano can take out a mortgage just like any of the rest of us. If Snyder needs more money, let him provide a product that will fill both the empty seats and the 10,000 plus seats he has covered in the current stadium.
Perhaps the additional sales tax revenue could be better used to offset the fear of reduced transportation funding. Some in NoVa believe that will come with relief from the regressive grocery tax that hits people with lower income the hardest.
Help Virginia’s lower income citizens first, pad Dan Snyder’s already fat pockets never.
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There are not many blighted areas in Loudoun County, unlike DC where there are still some.
AS for, “Help Virginia’s lower income citizens first, pad Dan Snyder’s already fat pockets never.”
Why doesn’t that apply to Jeff Bezos too?
I don’t like Snyder but who I like is irrelevant. Either this is a potentially good deal or it is not. I suspect that it is not a good deal but that should be the measure.
This is just another economic development proposal and should be evaluated on its merits (or lack thereof).
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How many full time employees will Synder employ as compared to Bezos?
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Maybe they can locate someplace where they won’t contribute to traffic issues? You know, like Fredricksburg.
Hey, there’s a horse racing track in New Kent that might draw from Richmond AND Norfolk!
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“Saslaw told the Post he will move to make sure the bonds can only be issued once and can only finance the stadium. “When the bill comes out of conference, it will be drawn tight as a drum,” he said.”
Some assembly required, it’s a cold sore, we must do lunch sometime, gonna divorce my wife n marry you, check is in the mail….
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40 year bond?
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Virginia is the 12th most populous US state. Every one of the 11 more populous states have multiple major league professional sports teams playing in their state. The 10 next most populous states (numbers 13 – 22) all have at least one major league professional sports team playing within their state. Many have multiple teams. Of the next ten most populous states (numbers 23 – 32) half have major league professional sports teams playing in their state.
Virginia will remain a state focused on sucking from the federal teat until it develops real cities. However, many of the plantation elite who inhabit the Richmond political sewer have some odd, longstanding aversion to building real cities. Virginia is the only state where cities are not routinely within counties. This creates furious fights over the normal process of annexation of county land by cities. The fights became so bad that the General Assembly put a moratorium on annexations to “study the matter”. That “study is now something like 35 years old.
Unfortunately, funding an NFL stadium in NoVa will not really create a Virginia major league professional sports team. Northern Virginia is, and will remain, a suburb of Washington, DC. I realize this is a fact that many writers and commentators on this blog can’t or won’t accept in their “Virginia First” philosophy but NoVa is a suburb of DC. The Commanders will not go from being the Washington Commanders to being the Virginia Commanders anymore than the Washington Redskins became the Maryland Redskins once their stadium moved from DC to Maryland.
So, how to create a Virginia major league professional sports team?
Not in Richmond. Richmond is hopeless regarding the possibility of becoming a serious southern city like Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh, Tampa, Austin, etc, etc. One hundred years ago Richmond rivaled Atlanta in population and importance. Over the last century Atlanta blossomed while Richmond stagnated. Trying to attract a major league sports team to Richmond is a fool’s errand.
If the General Assembly really wants a major league professional sports team in Virginia they should be looking at subsidizing an NHL or NBA team somewhere in Hampton Roads.
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So, how to create a Virginia major league professional sports team?
First, find out whether or not there is enough (or even close to enough) potential fan support to justify locating a major league sports team in Virginia.
There are already a minor league hockey (Admirals) and minor league baseball (Tides) in Norfolk. How much fan support do they get? If the answer is “not very much at all” then it is unlikely a major league team is going to be willing to take a chance on the Hampton Roads area.
By the way, do you remember an American Basketball Association team called the Virginia Squires? They tried four different cities in Virginia before they folded (Norfolk, Hampton, Richmond and Roanoke). I know it was a long time ago, but we need to be realistic about whether the sports atmosphere in Virginia has changed that much since the 1970s. Yes, the population has almost doubled since 1970, but the “break-even” attendance figures for the average major league sports have increased as well.
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“Should Virginia forfeit possibly unlimited tax dollars to finance not just a stadium but team offices, unrelated office space, retail stores, restaurants, lodging and anything else that the team, stadium authority and local government are up for?”
“…language in both the House and Senate bills says the bonds would finance a “facility,” yet the legislation defines that term so broadly that it could encompass the entire development.”
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No. Any bond issuance should be from the local level. The people from SW Virginia should no more indemnify bonds for a stadium in NoVa then the residents of NoVa should finance or pay for rural broadband in SW Virginia.
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No. Any bond issuance should be from the local level. The people from SW Virginia should no more indemnify bonds for a stadium in NoVa then the residents of NoVa should finance or pay for rural broadband in SW Virginia.
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When you drive I-66, my toll money from the HRBT paid for it. But things have improved. Now the tolls for Elizabeth River Crossing go directly overseas.
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Under the legislation, neither the state or localities would be indemnifying bonds for a stadium.
“Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as authorizing the pledging of the faith and credit of the
Commonwealth, or any of its revenues, or the faith and credit of any other political subdivision of the
Commonwealth, or any of its revenues, for the payment of any bonds issued pursuant to § 15.2-5832.No bonds issued pursuant to § 15.2-5832 shall pledge the full faith and credit of the Commonwealth, nor shall such bonds constitute a debt of the Commonwealth and shall so state on their face.
Bondholders shall have no recourse whatsoever against the Commonwealth for the payment of principal, interest, or redemption premium, if any, on such bonds.”
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So, if the collateral revenues to service the bonds don’t appear then the bondholders will be out of luck? And if the collateral revenues do appear then the “Mini-city” will have been an economic success?
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I don’t know about the “economic success” part, but if the Authority has to forfeit on its debt service payments, the bondholders will be the ones holding the bag.
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Please explain if state sale is a state revenue how can it be used to pay back the bonds or did I miss something.
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I realize that this probably reflects what you would consider a backward, provincial attitude: Why would Virginia want a major city? A lot of the commentary on BR is about bashing big cities.
By the way, I recognize that Northern Virginia is largely a suburb of D.C., although that may be changing. A lot of folks living on the fringes of NoVa work in NoVa and have little contact with D.C. On the other side of the coin, like it or not, NoVa is still part of the Commonwealth, although many there probably don’t realize that.
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Because big cities are where the wealth is created in modern America. You want to fund all the liberal programs? You need cities to generate the tax income to do so.
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That is a good point. Of course, we have NoVa!
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One third of a big city. The other two thirds are DC and the Maryland suburbs.
Once upon a time, Memphis was more important than Nashville. That didn’t stop Tennessee from implementing a major city/county merger to kick start the growth of Nashville.
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You are right. Virginia’s unique system of city/county separation has prevented the development of large cities. The Richmond area should not consist of one medium-sized city and two large counties. There should not be several independent cities clustered around Hampton Roads. Race-related politics underlie much of the current situation.
Nashville is one example of a successful regional government. Indianapolis/Marion County is another example.
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I agree, including the point on the race-related politics as the root cause.
So, is it time for structural change in Virginia to remove the barriers that retard the development of “real cities”?
I would love to see Richmond as the next Charlotte or Nashville. Do Richmonders want that?
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“A lot of folks living on the fringes of NoVa work in NoVa and have little contact with D.C. On the other side of the coin, like it or not, NoVa is still part of the Commonwealth, although many there probably don’t realize that.”
The reason for the ever expansion outwards from NOVA is the price and land. There is no more inside and it’ll cost you upwards of over a million dollars for a new home in Vienna. I’d also contend that they have plenty of contact with D.C. as they work for the agencies that occupy the district.
” NoVa is still part of the Commonwealth, although many there probably don’t realize that”
I get multiple reminders of that every single time I get in my car and go for a drive.
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I don’t miss that drive at all, I mean when I lived in South Riding to get across 50 on LCP it would take 30 minutes if not more to get from the Dulles Landing Plaza to home.
That isn’t even touching the traffic from Fairfax to South Riding on 50.
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The potholes, the missing and faded street signs covered by vegetation, the crooked traffic signals that malfunction and take weeks to repair…
And that’s before you get into the traffic congestion.
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And I mean that the traffic signals are literally crooked.
Hey, a spirit level is only a few bucks at Home Depot, and it doesn’t take much brainpower to figure out how to use one.
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Well considering the VDOT traffic engineers haven’t figured out how to sync lights on 50 during rush hour, you’re asking too much with the level as well.
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The only home brewing shop I knew of in the area was in Manassas. I had to plan for at least and hour our two to get there and back.
Edit: Don’t even bring up the near constant road construction on all major routes.
I-66 outside the beltway used to be a lovely drive with tress and such, because you were sitting still and got to see it. Now, it’s a vast wasteland of removed tress and construction.
” NoVa is still part of the Commonwealth, although many there probably don’t realize that”
I get multiple reminders of that every single time I get in my car and go for a drive.
If the NFL were a country, they’d rank in the top 20 in GDP. They’d also be the third largest oligarchy. I guess we could call it “foreign aid”, or as the Republicans are fond of pointing out, “taking money from poor Americans and giving it to rich foreigners.”
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“If the NFL were a country, they’d rank in the top 20 in GDP.”
Not even close to accurate.
The NFL generates about $25B per year in revenue.
The country with the 20th largest GDP is Switzerland with a GDP of $679B.
Meanwhile, Amazon had 2021 net sales of $469.8B.
Yet, economic development based tax breaks for Amazon makes sense but economic development tax breaks for professional sports teams does not.
What a terrible idea. Don’t these guys realize that the local jurisdictions have leverage over Snyder since nobody likes the guy and the current stadium is a white elephant?
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Snyder will “shop” the new stadium from DC to MD to VA looking for the best deal. Just like Amazon shopped their new HQ from place to place before finding a warm and hospitable home in Arlington.
I can’t imagine which area of NoVa would want the new stadium. It MUST be relatively easy walking distance from a Metro stop (FedEx Field proved that). Even with that it would have to provide immense amounts of parking. Where would it go?
MD already has the Ravens and Orioles. I can’t imagine MD wanting to subsidize another stadium.
Which leaves DC and either a stadium near Nats Park or on the site of the old RFK Stadium.
It’s a DC team, it should have a DC stadium.
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They’ve tried someone like the mini-city he’s proposing in Loudoun. Loudon One has never become what they said it would be, but the bright side is. There is plenty of land up there if Snyder wants to build a Stadium, they even have a failed Skin’s bar in the area.
Edit: The only thing they’d miss would be Metro, Dulles Silver Phase II is close, but not that close.
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That would be FedEX II. I don’t believe there is a planned Metro stop in the area (but I could be wrong). Rt 7 is being expanded but is still choked. And the East / West transportation required to provide access and egress to that area (80,000 people at a time) doesn’t really exist.
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I agree, I was just saying there is plenty of land in Loudoun, especially along the Greenway where they could land the boondoggle called Snyderville.
His neighbors might not be too happy though, they want to dictate how everyone lives from their multi-million dollar secluded homes.
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I agree, I was just saying there is plenty of land in Loudoun, especially along the Greenway where they could land the boondoggle called Snyderville.
His neighbors might not be too happy though, they want to dictate how everyone lives from their multi-million dollar secluded homes.
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Yes, unfortunately Loudoun seems to be target #1 and the BOS may very well be on board. Not sure about the Loudoun One location though… Plenty of land in the so-called “transition zone”.
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Loudoun One just became such a boondoggle, the only plus is the Top Golf right next door.
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They’ve tried someone like the mini-city he’s proposing in Loudoun. Loudon One has never become what they said it would be, but the bright side is. There is plenty of land up there if Snyder wants to build a Stadium, they even have a failed Skin’s bar in the area.
Edit: The only thing they’d miss would be Metro, Dulles Silver Phase II is close, but not that close.
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The talk is about either Loudoun or Prince William. The possible site in Sterling would be accessible to Metro if the Silver line opens. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/02/25/commanders-stadium-virginia/
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Silver Line could be needing a new purpose in the life in the post COVID world, with overall Metro ridership down. Paywall on the article though.
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I am not buying the “post-Covid” theory that people will largely work remote say three years from now. I’ve read about the 1918 so-called Spanish flu. Lots of people predicted major changes in society remaining after the flu was over. Other than a very much expanded nursing profession those changes did not materialize.
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Accessible must mean less than a 1 mile walk from the station to the turnstile into the stadium. Preferably one half mile.
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That isn’t Sterling and frankly, I don’t know where they think they are gonna build in Sterling. It’s currently being packed to the gills with Data Centers and all other hosts of large buildings.
The perks of them finally completing LCP all the way through.
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During the contest to find a new name for the Washington franchise, I suggested “Metros.” High name recognition, but perhaps not a pleasant thought!
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You are 100% correct about Metro.
I love going to Washington Capitals games, but I would never attend a game if I could not get on Metro in Vienna and get off at a stop near the Capital One Arena.
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What a horrible, tone deaf name – the “Commanders.” Yeah, I loved being commanded these last two years by buffoons.
If they show some cojones and go back to being the Redskins, I wouldn’t care about the waste of money.
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Names have a way of working out over time. I would have preferred he Washington Hellfish but Commanders will eventually become accepted. Whoever thought “Google” would be a good name for a big company?
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I worshipped Johnny U. Strike 1 was Colts moving. Strike 2 was Snyder taking over for Jack Kent Cooke. Strike 3 was Kaepernick and Goodell, the Jim Ryan of the NFL. I will never root for the Commanders. The Swamp Rats, the Deep Staters, the Tone Deaf Totalitarians, etc would be more accurate.
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Swamp Rats would have been brilliant.
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I too lived and died with Unitas and the Colts while growing up. I still remember the historic championship game with the Giants (pre-Super Bowl days). I was devastated when Irsay snuck the Colt out of Baltimore in the dead of night. After that, pro football began to lose its attraction for me.
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At Warsaw Elementary we were required to check out one library book each week. There was one book called The Johnny Unitas Story. The entire library card was all me. I think I must have read it twice a year…
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There have been various economic studies that question the premise that sports stadiums provide significant net benefits to the communities where they are built. See, for example, a research study posted on the website of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis: “The Economics of Subsidizing Sports Stadiums,” accessible at https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/page1-econ/2017-05-01/the-economics-of-subsidizing-sports-stadiums/
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Ah, a fact-based argument. That’s how this whole matter should be analyzed. Will it provide the benefits in excess of the costs? I don’t have the data from DC but the Nationals Park and the Capital One Arena seem to have had a very strong economic impact on the surrounding areas. Of course, higher costs and gentrification inevitably push somebody out.
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Sorry, saw you posted this study after I posted a link to it as well.
In the past DC wanted to get the team back.
In the past DC wanted to get the team back.
“The proponents of tax increment financing claim that the project being financed would bring in revenue that the state or locality would not have realized otherwise. Therefore, the proposal is not costing the locality or state anything. As Sen. Saslaw put it, this would be a “huge economic development project” that would not cost the state “a nickel.””
“In a 2017 poll, 83 percent of the economists surveyed agreed that “Providing state and local subsidies to build stadiums for professional sports teams is likely to cost the relevant taxpayers more than any local economic benefits that are generated.””
Courtesy of this Blue Virginia tweet:
https://twitter.com/bluevirginia/status/1500539063434108937
As an aside, noticed that my so-called Conservative HoD representative LaRock voted “aye” on HB 1353 … alas, but I am not surprised…
Also, I wonder if there is a campaign contributions driver to this legislation…
Let ’em raise money the way God intended. Incorporate, file with the SEC, issue an IPO, and issue Corporate Bonds.
There are 3 reasons they want your taxes and public money instead. S-E-C…
Using the players and staff VA income taxes should be excluded from the proposal.
Not one red cent for this project, not one. Most Virginians don’t go to their games and I, for one, resent having to pay for Snyder’s wanting US to finance HIS project.
Snake oil labeled under any name is still snake oil. Tax payer supported athletic franchises are always a bad deal. Such legislation simply affords legislators an opportunity to live out fantasies. Get real.
No tax-subsidized financing for billionaires. Dan Snyder can find his own financing. If he can’t, there’s not enough economic value added to justify the project.
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Then I guess the efforts to attract Amazon’s East Coast HQ to Virginia were ill conceived and should be discontinued?
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I was opposed to the Amazon subsidies. I always thought that Bezos would have chosen NoVa, even without the subsidies.
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At least you are consistent.
I have no problem with economic development subsidies that work but too many seem to fail.
The real value of the East Coast Amazon HQ in Arlington isn’t Amazon employment but the many possible spin-offs that will inevitably be started by Amazon employees. Has Virginia thought through the creation of an incubation process for these spin-offs?
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Yeah, he wanted the additional political clout Amazon’s proximity to D.C. would give him.
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That worked out so well for Mobil Oil.
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If the stadium is built in Virginia, it will go to Potomac Shores. It has panoramic views of the Potomac River, a new VRE station, multiple roads are being expanded (including I-95), and a casino will be nearby.
https://www.virginiadot.org/projects/northernvirginia/fraley_blvd_widening.asp
https://www.expresslanes.com/projects/fredericksburg-extension
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