Virginia Republican Congressmen Support Coup Attempt

Photo credit: The Sun

By Dick Hall-Sizemore

After taking an oath on Sunday to support and defend the Constitution, four Republican members of the House of Representatives from Virginia supported an attempt to disregard the votes of about 5 million citizens in a vain effort to keep Donald Trump in office.

These Congressmen were Morgan Griffith (9th District), Ben Cline (6th District), Robert Good (5th District), and Rob Wittman (1st District).

The supporters of this attempt cited vague claims about election fraud and concerns about the integrity of the electoral system. Trump continued to stoke these baseless claims in the face of statements by his top Homeland Security official on the integrity of the election system and his Attorney General that there is no evidence of widespread fraud that would change the results of the election. He fired them both after they made such statements. He continued to air such claims despite being ruled against by numerous judges, many nominated by him.

Trump supporters loudly claimed that the President had a right to challenge the results in court. He has had ample opportunity to do that. About 60 cases have been filed. In all but one, the Trump campaign lost. In the one in which it prevailed, a Supreme Court Justice directed a state to do what it was already doing: separate late mail-in ballots. Even then, there were not enough votes involved that would have changed the overall result for the state. The campaign’s lawyers threw everything they could think of into their cases, with the hope that something would stick. They even sued the Electoral College, even though that entity does not really exist.

Many of the suits involved election procedures utilized by the states being challenged. Some involved vague charges of fraud, with little to no specific evidence provided. A few cited specific acts alleged to constitute fraud. Many were summarily dismissed as being baseless. For those that were provided a hearing, the cases quickly fell apart. Many judges were scathing in their comments regarding the cases. These included state and federal judges. Many of the federal judges, including several on the Supreme Court, had been nominated by Trump.

It boiled down to Trump’s belief that the only way he could have lost was that the other side cheated. Never mind that there is no credible evidence of that level of cheating. It has to have been there. Otherwise, he would have won. This delusion led him to demand that the Georgia Secretary of State commit election fraud by “finding” him enough votes for him to win the state and to threaten criminal action against him if he failed to do so. It led him to declare that Vice-President Pence had unilateral authority to refuse to accept the electoral votes of a state. (Under that rationale, Al Gore could have refused to accept the Florida electoral votes and made himself President in 2000.) It led him to pump up a large crowd and urge it to march on the Capitol, with the result that a mob overran the Capitol building.

Instead of following the example of Republican-nominated judges and Republican state and election officials who acted upon their loyalty to the Constitution and the rule of law, these Virginia Republican congressmen acted out of loyalty to a self-deluded President who cannot acknowledge that he is a loser.

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149 responses to “Virginia Republican Congressmen Support Coup Attempt

  1. Good post, Dick. There must be an accounting of Trump’s enablers. Trump must be kicked out. NOW

    • There is no legal remedy to do that currently and he leaves office in 13 days.

      So what you’re saying is that you’re supporting a coup when it’s for your side, it’s wonderful you’re finally admitting to your hypocrisy.

      • Plenty of time to impeach and convict, there’s also the 25th Amendment option.

        • So further continuing to politicization of the impeachment process to the point where it will be common place, brilliant. Oh and just an note, Democrats no longer have 2/3rds majority of the House, so you’re not going to win there.

          25th Amendment, which section are you going to invoke for your little game?

          He leaves office in 13 days and you never have to see him again if you don’t want to. He wont’ be prosecuted regardless of your fantasies as it would open people to prosecution that would you offend you. Go to the Banana Republic post and read Matt Hurts statement, that is reality. You don’t live in it.

          • UpAgnstTheWall

            The president of the United States engaged in sedition at the least, and if you don’t think that clears the “high crimes and misdemeanors” bar then you’re the one playing partisan games with the impeachment process.

          • You should learn what “sedition” is before you attempt to assign it incorrectly.

            “High Crimes and Misdemeanors” is whatever Congress says it is, it doesn’t have to criminal. However, as I stated before if you want to go down that road, impeachment will become commonplace and used at every spat.

            Yeah, I’m totally partisan says they fellow spouting known conspiracy theories and fallacies.

      • Agreed with Matt. Some of these folks are Antifa dressed as Trump Supporters. Given the hypocrisy in reponse to Chaz, from these folks, there is totally a disconnect when Hunter Biden can sell access, but yet they go after Trump and law abiding citizens.
        It shows that the left/progressive has “rules for thee and not for me”, not applied equally. That means they shouldn’t be in an position to make judgements.

        • Yeah, and some are foreign agents. It’ll take a month to remove listening devices brought into the building and to account for whatever secure documents may have been breached.

        • “Law abiding citizens”

          Ethel Rosenberg was executed for behavior far less treasonous than what the people who stormed the Capitol yesterday did.

          • Ethel and Julius Rosenberg were victims of McCarthyism, yes. However, they were in fact spies, which was proven when the Soviet Union fell. Get with the times and drop the victim complex.

          • Somebody moved your goalposts.

          • “Nancy_Naive | January 7, 2021 at 8:38 am |
            Somebody moved your goalposts.”

            I didn’t bring up Julius and Ethel Rosenburg, and they got their day in court. People still indicating (to include their children and grandchildren) that they were innocent are just in denial.

          • “I didn’t bring up Julius and Ethel Rosenburg”

            Neither did UATW.

          • “Nancy_Naive | January 7, 2021 at 8:47 am |
            “I didn’t bring up Julius and Ethel Rosenburg”

            Neither did UATW.”

            “UpAgnstTheWall | January 7, 2021 at 8:25 am | Reply
            “Law abiding citizens”

            Ethel Rosenberg was executed for behavior far less treasonous than what the people who stormed the Capitol yesterday did.”

            Interesting, I seem to see a comment doing that very thing. Care you retract your statement.

          • Just in the interest of public safety, you don’t work in avionics, do you? Please say you work on dishwasher timers. Your ability to read requirements is questionable.

            Where did he include Julius?

          • “Nancy_Naive | January 7, 2021 at 9:12 am |
            Just in the interest of public safety, you don’t work in avionics, do you? Please say you work on dishwasher timers. Your ability to read requirements is questionable.

            Where did he include Julius?”

            So I’ll take it, you won’t admit your error.

            They were one in the same entity in the eyes of the court. Julius was the spy, she was complicit, enthusiastically I believe were the words of his handler.

          • I made no error.
            If I made an “error” you should be able to define it.
            Your error was saying that UATW mentioned Julius. He did not.

            Never mind my crack about you working on avionics, You clearly don’t contribute to anything but BR.

          • “Nancy_Naive | January 7, 2021 at 9:50 am |
            I made no error.
            If I made an “error” you should be able to define it.
            Your error was saying that UATW mentioned Julius. He did not.

            Never mind my crack about you working on avionics, You clearly don’t contribute to anything but BR.”

            No, that was the goalpost to which you moved.

            Oh look another personal attack, if only I cared.

          • Once again, another post without pinpointing my “error”.

        • What is the basis for your claim that Antifa was involved?

          • Hey, when you believe in Conspiracy Theories, there are no rules nor evidence needed. If you think the guy beat his wife, he did.

          • I’m sure you will be consistent, so I’m eagerly waiting for you to write an article condemning all these individuals for their attempted coup as well.

            “FLASHBACK: Democrats have a long history of objecting to election results when Republicans win. And we have the proof.”

            https://twitter.com/mrctv/status/1346510522963918852?s=19

            Congress has a role and it’s not mere counting, else the task would have been given to the archivist. If there are questions regarding the legality of the method by which the electors were chosen, it is their constitutional duty to raise them.

          • Dick Hall-Sizemore

            The Congressional role is related to counting. Here is the applicable section of law: “no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected.” In summary, if a state has certified its electoral votes, Congress cannot reject them. No less a staunch conservative Republican than Mike Lee of Utah said as much in the debate early this morning. https://www.c-span.org/video/?507698-5/senate-session-part-2&live

          • I respect Mike Lee but that doesn’t mean he is the final word on every subject.

            So I’m sure you are writing that next article condemning all the Democrats who are on tape doing the same thing? Did you even watch it?

      • The 25th Amendment could be invoked, but at this point I think it would be rooted more in revenge than an actual need.

        • Impeachment removes the ability for future office. Hits him where it hurts, fundraising.

          Don’t know how you can stop him from military misadventures. But that’s a must. It only takes 30 minutes.

          • Thing is, Trump has been playing this game for months at his rallies and on Twitter and only now some folks say he was wrong but now it’s too late to do anything…it would look “bad”?

            Not advocating anything be done but lord… it’s not like Trump suddenly went rogue!

          • “Impeachment removes the ability for future office. Hits him where it hurts, fundraising.”

            Even without impeachment I don’t think there is any chance of him getting the office in the future. As far as fundraising goes, well, a fool and his money are soon parted.

        • The 25th Amendment would have to be invoked by the Vice-President and the Cabinet. That would not be “revenge”. Apparently, it is being discussed at that level. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/politics/trump-capitol-impeachment-25-amendment/index.html

          • Pointless, the President has legal redress regarding the 25th Amendment. So you’d spend the next 13 days in Court.

          • Dick Hall-Sizemore

            I don’t disagree that it would be pointless and even more polarizing. I just hope that the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, and North Koreans don’t try to take advantage of the United States having a President that is so preoccupied with stewing over his loss and wreaking revenge on all those who have been “disloyal”.

          • All the above haven’t stopped taking advantage of the seeds of discontent sown in 2016.

          • You are correct. My mistake.

          • Mr. Hall-Sizemore,

            I’m thinking of making it a spring trip as well. If you see an old blue and silver BMW motorcycle in the parking lot when you get there come on over and say hello!

        • Let’s see if he does a blanket pardon for the “patriots”.

          • Including himself of course. Might as well fight that out in the courts now, so we know what the President can do in the future.

  2. Just want to point out a few things

    1. Barr wasn’t fired; he resigned, and there is no evidence that Trump asked him to resign. If you want to see how Trump reacts when people are fired or leave on bad terms, see how he treated Jim Mattis, Jeff Sessions, Sean Spicer, Steve Bannon, and others; he only had nice things to say about Barr.

    2. I didn’t check the other representatives, but your characterization of Wittman’s statement is way off. He directly cites the Constitution, and fully acknowledges that Joe Biden WILL be president on 20 Jan. His protest is over Pennsylvania’s election, which their own State Supreme Court acknowledged was illegal (the court then said they weren’t going to throw out any votes because Trump should have sued before the election instead of waiting until it was a problem).

    3. Democratic congressmen challenged the congressional certification of the electoral college votes in 2000, 2004, and 2016. Why is it suddenly a scandel when Republicans do it?

    • 3 baselessness.
      2 even still more than 270.
      1 i.e., see the Tweet.

    • Frankly, I did not know about the challenges in 2000, 2004, and 2016 until this current fiasco. I don’t think they should have mounted those challenges then. There is one primary difference this year from those other years. In the case of the Democratic challenges, the Democratic candidate for President had conceded and was not supporting the challenge, unlike this year in which the President refused to concede, spread baseless charges of fraud, and encouraged the challenge. Furthermore, in two of the Democractic challenges, a member of the Senate did not join in and the matter fizzled.

  3. I thought this was a useful database …

    https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

    Historically speaking, voter fraud happens, it’s not very common and it does get prosecuted.

    You can search by state.

    My favorite case is from Virginia:

    “Ben Cooper and 14 co-conspirators

    Former Appalachia mayor Ben Cooper and 14 others were convicted of voter fraud after conspiring to manipulate the 2004 elections in his town by buying the votes of residents, offering them cigarettes, beer, and pork rinds. He and his supporters also stole absentee ballots from the mail. This was the largest voter fraud conspiracy to date in Virginia. Cooper was sentenced to 10 years in prison, but the term was suspended after he served two years in jail and another two years in electronic home monitoring detention. Most of the other 14 defendants received suspended sentences or house arrest.”

    Cigarettes, beer and pork rinds.

    Gotta love it.

    • Of course it happens, less and less. But Pennsylvania documented 2 dead mothers and an absent child voting for Trump by mail. Evidence that should result in Texas Lt. Governor being legally forced to write a $1M reward check.

    • They could never have bought my vote with cigarettes and beer…

      … pork rinds, though…

      • Only if they are Beales!!

        https://www.bealesbeer.com

        You gotta make the drive. They are made to order, right there in front of you! Yikes! You will NEVER buy them in a bag again. Salt to taste.

        • I may just do that.

          According to MapQuest, a trip to Beales would be a 1 hour 50 minute drive for me, which on a motorcycle means about and hour and a half.

        • I spent a lot of time in Bedford many years ago, but have not been back for awhile. I have not heard of Beales. If they make fresh pork rinds, I have to go. Sounds like a good spring trip. I have been wanting to climb Sharp Top at the Peaks of Otter again anyway.

          • But can’t you take a bus to the top of Sharptop? 😉

            I love pork rinds but then they make me porky.

          • Their BBQ is to die for, as the wife says. They’re opening in Yorktown too.

            Last time I climbed Sharp Top, it was closed because of ice. Going up was a piece of cake. Came down on my sure-footed donkey, if you catch the drift. Scary as hell. Won’t do that again.

            Beales is this cavernous building with 20 or so long picnic tables and football on big screens.

            Say “Hello” to CHPS Officer Poncerello.

    • It gets better than that.

      https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/nov/22/20061122-104348-1638r/

      “The ongoing case has generated colorful headlines, and branded Mr. Cooper with the Boss Hogg title, a throwback to the crooked county commissioner in the television series “The Dukes of Hazzard.”

      The Roanoke Times reported that it was such a harebrained plan that Mr. Cooper’s defense attorney likened its masterminds to Larry, Curly and Moe of “The Three Stooges.”

      Earlier this month, Walter Mike Baber, a police officer hired by Mr. Cooper, was convicted of embezzlement for taking a television and stereo from the home of a woman selling crack cocaine, Mr. McAfee said.

      Some real Jerry Springer material here.

  4. What Biden should do is direct his Attorney General to investigate and prosecute any person who did anything out of the ordinary (i.e., violate the statutes or regulations or make unauthorized changes thereto) in the last election. Republican or Democrat. For example, prosecute those in Pennsylvania who wouldn’t let Republicans in immediately to observe ballot counting. There was fraud but it didn’t affect the results. Biden was elected.

    But permitting any fraud undermines trust in elections. The filthy media won’t cover it. But fraud occurs. It needs to be made intolerable. People who engage in fraud need to to serve some time in prison.

    The Supreme Court has consistently held that judges are not to make changes in voting rules right before an election. The U.S. Attorney General should file judicial complaints for every judge who violated that rule of law. For example, a judge ruled that people who didn’t sign the absentee ballot could revote. That, in and of itself, is not a terrible, but it wasn’t the rule. A change in the law needs to be made by the legislature and not a judge right before the election. A complaint by the U.S. Department of Justice would destroy the judge’s reputation and, maybe, career. It needs to be done.

    Biden should also condemn the media for failing to take voter fraud seriously. Nixon went to China. Biden could make a major step in calming the United States by taking action. It would totally disarm the arguments from the rabid Trump supporters that voting fraud is ignored. It would send a message that anyone who takes action related to voting fraud will face prosecution.

    • “We conclude the Board did not act contrary to law in fashioning its regulations governing the positioning of candidate representatives during the precanvassing and canvassing process, as the Election Code does not specify minimum distance parameters for the location of such representatives,” the court wrote in its majority order. “Critically, we find the Board’s regulations as applied herein were reasonable in that they allowed candidate representatives to observe the Board conducting its activities as prescribed under the Election Code.”

    • TMT – there is no question that fraud does occur.

      The question is was it a coordinated statewide conspiracy in multiple states to get votes for one candidate over the other?

      That’s essentially the claim that when Pennsylvania and Georgia changed the rules for voting and made it easier that they knew it would result in more Dem votes and that would be illegal and done by the heads of the election process.

      right?

      • The point is if Biden were to go after anything out of the ordinary, he could prove that there is zero tolerance for voter fraud or altering the rules to favor one party or another. So long as these incidents are being ignored, it allows extremists to make their case.

        And you don’t change voting rules right before, during or right after an election. The law is every qualified voter who follows the rules can vote. If you vote in person and screw up your ballot, you screwed up your ballot. T.S. So why is it fair when someone screws up an absentee ballot by not signing it, why does she/he get to fix it if it’s not in the statute?

        Most judges are demoralized when an appeals court reverses them. Having the U.S. Justice Department file a complaint against them for interfering in an election would absolutely destroy their reputations. Judges would start following the Supreme Court’s directive of no changes right before an election.

        The question is: Do we want to lower the tension in the United States or continue splitting the country? 80 million people voted for Biden. 73 million voted for Trump. And a goodly number of those people hate the other side. Trump will be gone. Biden is in a good position to move towards those who voted against him, while championing good government and zero toleration of voter fraud.

        And who controls the Capitol Police? The Congress of the United States.

  5. A legitimate question of possible conspiracy exists. Why were the Capitol Police so poorly prepared? How did the protesters breach the barricades with such apparent ease? At some points it looked like the Capitol Police were actually aiding the breach.

    I realize that when given a choice between conspiracy and incompetence it is almost always right to choose incompetence but yesterday’s events were over the top.

    Was this (partially at least) an inside job?

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a-nation-asks-where-were-the-u-s-capitol-police-01609975580?cx_testId=3&cx_testVariant=cx_16&cx_artPos=6#cxrecs_s

    • So you’re saying the Police that were in charge of protecting Congressmen and women decided to pull back and let the protestors break in?

      Who do the Capitol Police report to?

      Uh oh…

      • You got it. I’ve watched the videos. It sure looked like at least one Capitol Police officer opened the barricade. Maybe there is an innocent explanation. I think so and I hope so. However, if there was even the collusion of one Capitol Police officer – we have a different type of situation.

  6. I hope everyone who objected to questions regarding the legitimacy of the election is now happy. Congress has certified Biden as our next President.

    I guess we shouldn’t be concerned that he’s potentially a Manchurian Candidate.

    “A justice department official has confirmed to Sinclair Broadcast Group that the FBI opened up a criminal investigation into Hunter Biden and his associates back in 2019, focused on allegations of money-laundering and that the probe remains active.”

    “Sinclair investigative reporter James Rosen has also spoken with a central witness in these allegations, which suggests that former vice president Joe Biden knew more than he has acknowledged about his son’s overseas dealings.”

    Quotes from Bobulinksi:

    “The compromise they have is that in documents that have been well provided to the Senate, to Congress, to the Department of Justice via the FBI that CEFC was effectively loaning money directly to the Biden family.”

    “My impression was everyone in that room was aware of the sensitivity of the parties involved and potential multiple impacts to this country and every citizen living in it.”

    “I can only imagine to the extent that the Chinese communist party has information on the Biden family and their business dealings. Other business dealings that occurred in Romania, Khazakstan, Georgia, Monaco and the Middle East, and then obviously topping off in Russia.”

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/29/james_rosen_fbi_has_an_active_criminal_investigation_into_hunter_biden_for_money_laundering.html#

  7. James Wyatt Whitehead V

    2,357 days passed between August 8th, 1974 and January 20th, 1981.

  8. My morning has been better spent working out at the Y. So I jump in late.

    Dick plays the role of Robespierre, seeking to begin the Reign of Terror. Shame on you, Dick. I expected better. That’s a Larry thing….or UpAgainstTheFacts….

    The parallels with Seattle are the strongest. That was also a long assault on a federal building, with an attempt to harm those people, destroy the building and impede the function of government. Anybody who cheered that, or stood by silently, has no moral standing to complain about those who cheered on what happened yesterday, or stood by silently. The scale is different, and in this case the president himself (no capital P for him) has blood on his hands. Truly. But otherwise 100% the same.

    The voters who felt aggrieved by the election made their complaints through the legal process and failed. I didn’t think Texas would have standing to challenge some other state’s electors, and SCOTUS ruled as I expected. I don’t blame anybody for seeking to run the traps in the legal reviews. Yes, the show that was coming yesterday from the “objectors” was just a show, and a dumb one. Had everybody involved announced they would be voting to affirm, the mob would have still have arrived egged on by Trump. I will say any Congressman who claimed the tactic was going to work should be ashamed, but most knew it was a show.

    Larry – my mind has been hovering on three and a half years ago, the big debate after Charlottesville. Do you get it now, fool, that violence on either side is equally dangerous and reprehensible? It, too, spreads like a virus? I’m sure you do not, but people like you who defend violence they agree with, who are blind, biased enablers, should also be reflecting today on what they hath wrought….I saw this coming even then, the Summer of 2017…The Plague On All Our Houses has arrived. We have met the enemy and it is us.

    • re: ” The parallels with Seattle are the strongest. That was also a long assault on a federal building, with an attempt to harm those people, destroy the building and impede the function of government. ”

      Are you saying leaders of government encouraged the demonstrators to do that based on some conspiracy theory about what was going on in that building?

      Seems like we’ve spent some time trying to normalize Trumps behavior and criticising those who called him out as engaging in hate and causing more bad behavior. Does anyone remember his behavior in the debates for 2016 and then this time around. And he apparently was justified because people didn’t like him?

      He spends day after day on twitter talking about “good people on both sides”, Proud Boys, Trump supporters in pickup trucks with flags and shooting paintballs, on and on… He fires people in his office on Twitter and denigrates them before and after…

      All of this and the poor man was unjustly hated so totally justified in his behaviors.

      And now we get to this point and some folks say “I’ve had enough” BUT really… it’s all payback for the prior bad acts the Dems did?

      Talk about living in LA LA LAnd.

      • The actions matter, not the motives. But you are the epitome of “the end justifies the means. “

        • It’s also like how the media found the word “riot” again yesterday. Completely and unabashed hypocrisy.

          It was wrong yesterday as it was wrong all summer long. Property destruction and mayhem is not part of peaceful protest. All of that violence was elected official condoned.

          Ironically, yesterday showed us images of the chambers that belong to the people of the United States. They should be able to access them at any time, as those who occupy the seat answer to the people.

          • Reed Fawell 3rd

            One key to understanding this, is that these “protestors” on the whole did not wear masks. Am I right about that? If so, they were not the leftist professional goons typically cheered on (and perhaps funded) by the Progressive left Wing of Democratic Party, their mobs who rioted, looted, intimidated, beat up and destroyed at will for years (since 2017) in Blue state cities, including throughout much of the Covid -19 plague.

            Meanwhile, America’s public schools, churches, and small businesses in those same Blue run places were shuttered, locked down, destroying other citizens’ livelihoods, faiths, and educations, as if to clear the way for the Progressive’s thug janissaries to wreak their havoc, the rioters and looters. Where was the Democratic outrage then? Nowhere. Only support and/or excuses for the thugs.

        • Never ever. Just the opposite. The ends never justify the means. That’s the exact problem that led to this.

          Give one example of your claim – which is wrong for you to do in the first place – and you know it.

        • That’s exactly right. Whenever you hear a leftie talk about “false equivalence” your sonar should ping faster. That’s the signal that the liberal is about to excuse some liberal practice while loud criticizing the same conservative practice.

          • Until we as a society go back to one set of rules for everyone, this split and accompanying violence will escalate. We’ve been realizing that drivers should not be stopped by the police because they are black when a white person would not be stopped in the same situation. We are looking at whether cash bail is fair. The courts are saying COVID governors cannot apply harder standards to churches or synagogues than they do for businesses. We are looking at drug laws because they seem to have disparate impacts on blacks.

            Yet, we ignore the religious bigotry of Senators Horino and Harris. Can anyone imagine Fred Hiatt calling out anti-Catholic bigotry? There is voter fraud. It’s not enough to find that it didn’t cause a change in results. People who engage in election fraud need to be prosecuted. Judges who ignore the Supreme Court’s mandate not to change election rules close to an election need to be called out, shamed and reprimanded.

            Unless these things happen and people on the left and on the right move towards the other, we will see more and more hatred and violence.

    • “The parallels with Seattle are the strongest. ”

      As is the contrast, (perpendiculars?), For one, no unidentified LEO/contractors in rented vans wandered far beyond the confines or the immediate federal property to snatch up people off the streets, only to release (to the best of our knowledge) them uncharged.

      • As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Gee, wish I’d made that up, but can’t claim it….

        • And he who brings trouble into our house shall truly inherit the wind. Ditto.

          • Speaking of wind, I thought you’d already headed down through the Deep Creek or G.B. lock or are you going outside?

            Remember to keep the the preventer rigged when you are wing and wing.

            Sigh …

          • This’ll be our first. Gotta go out. 65′. Can duck back in near SC. Nothing good happens in ditches.

            Or, the wife on the helm and stay below where it’s warm.

        • I appreciate your perspective Steve. Been reading BR for a couple of years now and I have to admit I can’t recall Larry the G or NN ever acknowledging their “side” having any fault for anything. Would love to hear them cite a couple of things if it wouldn’t make their heads explode. And Dick, I feel so much better knowing there was no evidence of WIDESPREAD fraud. I guess a little fraud doesn’t hurts, does it? Let’s all keep playing the “winner takes all and take no prisoners” approach and see what our country looks like in about ten years. That tone has been set by BOTH parties and as long as we keep sending the same ones back to their “lifetime positions” in Congress and the Senate nothing will change. God help us all.

          • More Partisan Blather… sorry..

            I cite problems and issues all the time – for instance, the fact that so many schools do so badly with low income kids or that the Parole Board has gone bonkers for some releases.

            So you’re saying this from a totally partisan lens – like Steve does sometimes.

            the point about fraud is that is it ALWAYS there , you can’t fix the system so it never happens. Illegal voting here and there for different candidates is WAY WAY different than fraud across multiple precincts or states that results in votes for only one candidate. That IS a conspiracy.

            But individual folks do get ballots and vote when they should not. They don’t all vote the same way unless you want to believe that only Dems do this and never the GOP.

          • Ah, the canned response of “I’m not partisan, you’re partisan”. It appears we’ve entered the 3rd grade again.

          • re: ” I can’t recall Larry the G or NN ever acknowledging their “side” having any fault for anything. ”

            when you start out saying “their side”, it’s partisan from the get go and we know PackerFan from his/her many posts repuation also.

            I do not align with the far left as folks who read here and are honest do know… I talk about wackadoodles on both sides – like the folks who think we can power the grid with only solar and wind and not gas or nukes.

            Medicare should cost more – $145 a month is outrageous unless one is truly poor.

            No one with a 75K income should receive a “stimulus” payment.

            On and on… but I do not admire the right these days. I like the GOP when they had moderates … who could actually win the governorship in Va instead of folks like Corey Stewart and Amanda Chase.

          • Larry,

            You reference “their side” all the time, pot met kettle.

            Without even skipping you run down the partisan rat hole again, tone deaf.

          • not from the get go… 😉

          • Dick Hall-Sizemore

            Of course, any fraud is bad. There is often some fraud and it is prosecuted when found. What I meant by “widespread” is there is no evidence that there was any fraud beyond what would be considered normal and certainly not on the scale claimed by Trump: “thousands and millions of illegal votes”.

          • I’ve been a poll worker in the past and believe that Steve is still one.

            Ask how hard or easy it would be for “fraud” at the precinct for individual ballots.

            Ask how hard or easy fraud would be to alter the entire precinct numbers for one candidate.

            It’s not impossible but pretty damn hard unless there are multiple people involved in a conspiracy.

            Trump and his supporters – both in Congress and citizens are saying that “fraud” occurred across multiple precincts – statewide in multiple states.

            Think about the reasonableness of that …. it’s not.

  9. “Virginia Republican Congressmen Support Coup Attempt”

    This title is an outrageous slur. The fact Dick is a former long term high ranking employee of the Virginia State government, makes the allegation even more telling and frightening.

    Expect more of this from left.

    • It is outrageous since Democrats have a recent history of lodging similar objections after the states’ certified the electors. However, Dick admitted he did not know about those objections when he wrote the article and should be allowed to either reconsider the term “coup” or agree to apply it to the Democrats who lodged objections.

      • The dems did not send mobs to washington and the Dem candidates conceded rather than insist they won and spouting conspiracy theories.

        can’t keep an even keel on this DJ?

        • So it appears that your memory only spans 3.5 years?

          https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-38700648

        • “The dems did not send mobs to washington…”

          Like hell they didn’t. It is you who are off kilter on this one, Larry.

          Although I’m sure you will chime in with some goal-post-moving “conditions” which “prove” that what happened in D.C. during January of 2017 was in no way associated with the democrats.

        • Try to focus. The issue was the title of Dick’s article, “Virginia congressmen support coup attempt”. That supposedly happened when they voted “yay” to a objections to the electoral college count for some states. That happened after the rabble attacked the Congress and were cleared.

          Here is the crux of the Dick’s point, in my opinion … “Instead of following the example of Republican-nominated judges and Republican state and election officials who acted upon their loyalty to the Constitution and the rule of law, these Virginia Republican congressmen acted out of loyalty to a self-deluded President who cannot acknowledge that he is a loser.”

          The point was that their votes made them coup supporters. There was no allegation that they “sent mobs” or knew about any plans to attack the Capitol.

          Yet when Democrats cast these same types of vote in the past nobody accused them of supporting a coup.

          • re: ” The point was that their votes made them coup supporters. There was no allegation that they “sent mobs” or knew about any plans to attack the Capitol”

            They signed on with Trumps view that the election was stolen and stayed with him when he had rally’s to continue that claim and then had them come to DC – they continued to pursue in Congress – actions to deny accepting votes from states.

            Do you not see that as complicit?

            ” Former Attorney General William Barr said Thursday that President Donald Trump inciting a violent insurrection on Capitol Hill the previous day was a “betrayal of his office and supporters.”

            In a statement to the Associated Press, Barr said “orchestrating a mob to pressure Congress is inexcusable.”

            The president headlined a “March for Trump” rally on Wednesday where he continued spinning nonsense conspiracy theories about voter fraud, election-rigging, and faulty voting machines and claimed Democrats “stole” the election from him. Trump also urged his supporters to march to the Capitol, where Congress was convening to count up the electoral votes in the 2020 election and finalize President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in the race.”

            The GOP Congressmen continued the vote challenges in Congress – correct?

            time to focus?

      • I am not the first to use the term “coup” and that was before the violence at the Capitol yesterday. https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/trumps-coup-attempt-isnt-over

        I don’t approve of the Democrats objecting to certification in previous years, but I would not consider their actions rising to the level of a coup attempt. In the first place, the would-be beneficiaries of their actions, Gore, Kerry, and Clinton, had conceded the race and did not participate in, or approve of, the actions. A coup attempt needs a leader and an organized group of followers. In 2000, 12 House members objected, but no Senator joined, so there was not even a debate. In 2004, there were 31 House members and 1 Senator. In 2016, there were 11 House members and no Senator, again not even a formal debate. To call these acts coup attempts would be ludicrous.

        On the other hand, ever since mid-November, Trump has been sowing baseless allegations of election fraud and of the Democrats stealing the election. Despite losing decisively in more than 60 court actions, despite his Attorney General reporting there was no such election fraud, he continued his allegations. He pressured state election officials to support his claims, even demanding that one “find” him enough votes, although that state had counted its votes three times (two recounts). He then declared to his followers that the Vice President had the power to throw out electoral votes that he viewed as suspicious. In other words, he worked tirelessly to overturn election results certified by states in accordance with law. Over 100 members of the House and 6-7 Senators bought into this attempt. Up until yesterday, Trump actually seemed to believe that Pence was his ace in the hole and that he could pull it off. That is a coup attempt.

        • Dick,

          If we want to discuss facts, we can start with as follows:

          The Trump Campaign was party to only 2 suits, New Mexico and PA. All others where not the campaign, to insist otherwise is merely a media talking point to put Trump down (it’s the cool thing to do).

          Fmr. AG Bill Barr didn’t indicate there wasn’t any fraud, he indicated there wasn’t significant enough fraud to overturn the election.

        • I would apply the term “coup” to the discussion over Martial Law started by General Flynn and embraced by Amanda Chase. Trump was part of that discussion. That was pure third world stuff.

          Whatever problems Trump had pre November, he is clearly deranged now. Completely off his nut. Insane by a medical definition. He clearly believed Pence could or would block that process yesterday, with I suspect no actual encouragement from Pence. I suspect Pence actually told him that long ago, but just didn’t make it public. Misguided loyalty.

          • Yes, he’s mad as a hatter, but “He clearly believed Pence could or would block that process yesterday..” is not evidence of madness. It’s stupidity.

            He’s a witless paranoid sociopath. “Hand me that red phone and that brief case.”

        • If it is within the right of Democratic politicians to vote in support of objections to the electoral process it is also within the right of Republican politicians to do the same. As Ted Cruz correctly stated, the objection (if supported) would have resulted in an audit.

          Voting to conduct an audit of an election where a politician has suspicions of fraud or improper process is not a coup attempt. Not yesterday. No when the Democrats did it. Never.

          Your argument in the comment above justifies describing Trump’s actions as a coup attempt. It does not justify calling the actions of the Virginia congressmen a coup attempt.

          • Reed Fawell 3rd

            The Leftist Campaign against Trump people and Republicans generally that started four ago with bogus charges of the most vicious kind, now is going into brutal overdrive. We have seen nothing yet. Hold your hats.

    • You don’t suppose that the process of becoming a long term, high ranking employee of the Virginia State government involves a whole lot of lyin’ and bullshittin’, [1]do ya?

      [1]what some might euphemistically call “politics”.

  10. This morning, I finally got around to watching a couple videos of the protests. At first, it looked like a raging kegger that ran out of beer: https://youtu.be/nx_zzHjqFRk

    But its clear something illegal happen, since apparently you have to be democratically elected to legally loot the capital.

    • One of the best things I ever did was stop paying attention to the “breaking” news. Outside of Washington or Richmond, average people have too much else to worry about then the sh!t stirring of media drama queens with their pseudo-straight faces while nodding at each other over their fake sincerity. Extremists on the left & right & fthe or-profit “news” media masquerading as a public service that amplifies them are equally to blame for this sh!t show.

      The left wants to move too far, too fast, when clearly a significant amount of the population doesn’t agree with them (even if they are the slight political majority.) The right has similar issues. The winner takes all attitude is the problem… and maybe consider that when you point your finger at someone else, three of your fingers are pointing back at you.

    • As a citizen, no one should have to schedule a visit to the Capitol or any part of DC. You should be able to show up, be scanned for contraband and visit every inch minus the SCIFS.

      It’s ours, the premise that we as a people don’t belong there is in a word preposterous. It wasn’t until 1890 when Grover Cleveland shuttered the White House gates that the people were no longer welcome in what Jefferson described as the “people’s house”.

      From a completely historical point of view, look at the sheer number of priceless artifacts we are unwelcome to view.

  11. re: ” Author: WayneS

    Comment:
    “The dems did not send mobs to washington…”

    The hell they didn’t.”

    encouraging them to storm the capitol?

    • Yup. Just like I predicted – goal post moving “conditions”.

    • What Republican politician encouraged anybody to “storm the Capitol”. Be specific.

      • They stood with Trump who told them to.

        And when he did – they did not disavow.

        This has been going on awhile with much of the GOP.

        Why do you think this mob came to the capitol to start with DJ?

        Did you see any GOP to tell them to go home? Nope. Not a one stood up until AFTER it happened.

  12. Well, if this isn’t a wake-up call that the two party system needs to die than we’re all comatose.

    Time for nationwide Ranked Choice Voting. Ima right, Larry?

    • I DO like ranked choice VDOTyranny. But “counting” ballots would be a nightmare… and the folks prone to conspiracy theories would go ape-crap.

  13. Here is the best explanation by far as to why the GOP lost the last presidential and Georgia Senate election that I have found, beyond Trump’s gross misbehavior:

    See https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/how-gop-lost-control-washington-and-what-comes-next?utm_source=breaking-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter

    • I have no basic disagreement with that. I think if the GOP had not surrendered the narrative on the pandemic a victory was still possible. But on the organizational side, that is correct.

      • There is some truth to the idea of making it easier to vote. The question is were the votes valid or not.

        The GOP has been rightly accused of suppressing the vote and drawing voting districts that were immediately struck down by the courts – like in North Carolina.

        I’m all for making sure the votes are valid but I’m also pretty sure that the Dems will beat the GOP straight up in a lot of districts just because there are more Dems to start with.

        You can see this in some polls where they disclose the criteria they used. It almost always says there are more dems in the standardized/nominal demographics.

    • I don’t have time to respond to all the assertions in the article being linked to, but want to address this idea that officials other than legislatures suddenly changed all the rules to the detriment of Republicans. One of the main complaints is that “mail ballots could be sent to everyone, even if they didn’t ask for one, and wide swaths of Americans could vote by mail.” In 2020, ballots were mailed without being requested to all registered voters in 9 states and D.C. This was a new practice only in California, Vermont, and D.C. Therefore, ballots were not mailed to “everyone” and, in most of the states in which that was done, it had been done in prior years. Hardly a last minute change.

      A list of practices is provided in which changes were made “and Republicans — who controlled the legislatures in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Arizona and the constitutional right to set the rules — hardly put up a fight.” One of those provisions had to do with “curing” of mail-in ballots. It turns out that “curing” was not allowed in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania and was authorized in statute in Georgia and Arizona. https://ballotpedia.org/Processing,_counting,_and_challenging_absentee/mail-in_ballots_in_Georgia,_2020
      So much for all this wailing and gnashing of teeth over the legislatures getting rolled.

  14. Well, if we’re trading citations, here is the best summation I’ve seen of the range of emotions I felt yesterday watching the scene at the Capitol. https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/images-trump-mobs-at-capitol/2021/01/06/87324ae4-5061-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

    You really think “Some of these folks are Antifa dressed as Trump Supporters”? Not this guy:

    • Blaming the Capitol rampage on Antifa is as ridiculous as blaming the Portland riots on the Proud Boys. Both Left and Right have to come to grips with the fact that they both have extremists capable of committing violence.

  15. This was not a coup attempt. This was the first attack. These people haven’t disappeared into the woodwok like roaches; they are armed and waiting. They’ll be back.

    • You are likely correct, unfortunately. They’ll be back and they likely will be armed with their ARs.

      We’ve pretty much always had a citizen militia problem… but social media has put them on steroids.
      ..

      • But in reality, Larry, no one will have an AR because Joe Biden has promised to take them away from us. And democrats always keep their promises.

        • Really? So this was the last chance for folks to bring their ARs to a protest? shazaaammmm

          So there must have been some Biden Confederates embedded in those groups that convinced them no to bring their ARs.

          Good Gawd!

    • As I predicted yesterday during the “takeover”, the issue would be resolved by 6:00pm. I was a pessimist. The Capitol was cleared at 5:58pm.

      The people who stormed the Capitol were violent numbskulls. Just like the people who violently took over part of Seattle and declared it to be CHAZ.

      Neither group represents a significant threat to the United States.

      There will be no Civil War II (or, for some … The War of Northern Aggression II).

      Is Wall Street still occupied?

    • Since you are the one who brought up the Reichstag fire, I assume Nancy you recognize yours and Larry’s as the rhetoric that Hitler and Goebbels used in that case to take greater power. I’m liking that parallel more and more as the Left rages on today….what did Biden just claim? That the Capitol Cops would have been rougher on Black trespassers? That with a body cooling in a morgue?

      Our deranged little p president handed his opponents a wonderful stick to beat us all with.

      • “I will be in DC on the 6th!” she posted in the days leading up to Wednesday’s planned demonstrations. “God bless America and WWG1WGA.” That acronym — meaning, “Where We Go One, We Go All” — is a slogan of the QAnon movement.

        She was wrong. She walked that valley alone.

      • re: ” rhetoric that Hitler and Goebbels ”

        more inane blather. good grief man… open mouth , insert foot…

        you do not have a clue in my view except you have advanced to the point where you now admit Trump is deranged on top of current occupant!

      • well Steve, we didn’t pick him. Nobody but you is beating you.

        All of your life, you had all the right documents to register to vote. No one ever asked you to pay a tax to vote. Nobody ever asked you to spell “Chrysanthemum” before giving you a ballot.

        You claim the “right solutions”, but you failed to popularize them. Decry those of the other side. Relied on his demagoguery to win that little “p” president his seat.

        Nobody ever disenfranchised you. You voted and lost. You’re just the loser.

        Now, show the grace the rest in your party lack.

      • Maybe you guys shouldn’t have voted for him.

  16. The OG himself, Mike Davis, over at the New Left Review has one of the more prescient takes on fracturing between Ever-Trumpers in the House GOP versus the post-Trump Senate Republicans. https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/riot-on-the-hill

    “Institutionally, Senate Republicans, with a strong roster of young talents, will rule the post-Trump camp and, via vicious darwinian competition – above all, the battle to replace McConnell – bring about a generational succession, probably before the Democrats’ octogenarian oligarchy has left the scene. (The major internal battle on the post-Trump side in the next few years will probably center on foreign policy and the new cold war with China.)

    “That’s one side of the split. The other is more dramatic: the True Trumpists have become a de facto third party, bunkered down heavily in the House of Representatives. As Trump embalms himself in bitter revenge fantasies, reconciliation between the two camps will probably become impossible, although individual defections may occur. Mar-a-Lago will become base camp for the Trump death cult which will continue to mobilize his hardcore followers to terrorize Republican primaries and ensure the preservation of a large die-hard contingent in the House as well as in red-state legislatures. (Republicans in the Senate, accessing huge corporation donations, are far less vulnerable to such challenges.)”

    • Total nonsense.

      • On a long enough timeline, the Trump crowd will fade away, but I can see a number of them holding on through at least the next cycle. Folks like Hawley, Cotton, Rubio etc. will have quite a challenge ahead of them presenting a united (let alone coherent) front headed into the midterms.

        • Trump crowd fade away? What, become leftist? Be forced into civil war?

          • Between having no donor base, no party infrastructure, and no President — yeah, their shelf life is limited. They’ve got better fundamentals if you just examine the voter base, but I can’t see them persisting through 2024 without reforming or raising the banner of an as-yet-unidentified successor to Trump.

  17. One presumes that Trump’s base will want to find a successor, no?

    Would anyone disagree that Trump’s base is tea-party born?

    • I’d say yes to No. 1 and no to No. 2. The Trump base shares a real anger toward elites with the Tea Party base, but IIRC the Tea Party was more a union of Chamber of Commerce interests with populist energy than a true populist revolt. In other words, the Tea Party laundered conventional GOP economic liberalism into something devastatingly effective at the polls, but not actually revolutionary in intent.

      Insofar as the Trump crowd speaks the Chamber’s language, it’s because Trumpian rhetoricians haven’t yet crafted a real ideology that doesn’t unthinkingly carry water for the interests of capital markets. Trump’s own language has a lot to do with that.

      Accurately mapping out what Trumpism (now post-Trumpism, I suppose) really is inevitably draws criticism from all corners. It makes liberals queasy because it acknowledges by way of contrast that the American Left is, on an institutional level, much more removed from “Middle America” than their rhetoric suggests. It deeply disturbs the American Right because it suggests there’s not a large voting base in favor of the Reagan-Thatcher consensus.

      • Interesting post. I’d need to read several others who say simiar or the same to be convinced that what Novalad is saying about these groups is true rather than one opinion.

        Trump has support from Tea party as well as other identifiable groups like Q-anon and it might be intersting to see a demographic political profile of his supporters.

        I don’t think they are going away and I migh equate them to the far right groups in Europe as separate and distinct from Conservative groups.

        If we’d look at the popular vote for Trump, what percent would be “pure” Trumpian and what parts would be tea party and more conventional GOP?

        • …and what percent would be as simple as votes AGAINST Joe Biden and Kamala Harris?

          • Are we talking about Dems voting against them? people of color? Moderates,never-trumpers?

            In other words – is the Dem vote essentially a coalition more than it is a consolidated base?

  18. What a dozen senators and over 100 representatives supported was a political stunt that had no chance of success. Whatever fraud took place was not enough to change the results as evidenced by the failed legal actions and the statement by Barr. What these members did was encourage a deranged president along with his son and Rudy to inflame a mob to engage in insurrection and sedition.
    The Virginia members who were part of this should be ashamed of themselves and they clearly violated their oath of office and should pay a price.

    • If you listen to Whittman, he sounds sincere that he beieves that Pennsylvania violated the Constitution by expanding voting.

      no?

      That alone – if it brought in more “legal” voters would be problematical – in terms of a system that might be perceived as discouraging votes but the further claim is that by doing that – many more illegal votes occurred AND they were Dems!

      Further, even GOP election officials unwittingly or purposely particupated in the changes to expand voting.

      • Well he must not have seen that a federal judge dismissed the Pennsylvania litigation. Look at these two articles–https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/election-2020/us-supreme-court-refuses-to-hear-trumps-appeal-over-pennsylvania-election-results and https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/trump-washington-rally-pennsylvania-fact-check-20210106.html. I know Whitman because he use to be my congressman and for years I gave him donations.
        He did what he did to avoid being primaried in a very conservative district. He violated his oath, knew that it was a political stunt and revealed that he lacks political courage.

        • Agree. But for some folks these days, it really does not matter how a judge or multiple judges rule on an issue – you actually have the POTUS calling them out personally and talking about how wrong they are so indeed those who admire Trump will do the same.

          It walks and talks like anarchy in some respects. Trump decided what was right or wrong not the courts – in his mind – and in his supporters minds – ergo folks like Whittman who chose , like other supporters to ignore the fact that multiple State and Federal judges ruled that those actions were legal and constitutional – no matter – they’re wrong.. ergo – the rule of law no longer stands if the POTUS disagrees.

          Some folks see this as truly dangerous. Others apparently do not.

          • Bill O'Keefe

            And, that is the core problem. Too many have no respect for the rule of law. Without that we can not survive as a democracy.

      • Not the Constitution, the PA Constitution. PA has voting requirements that were arbitrarily changed without the legislature, that is a violation. However, the PA Supreme Court indicated that it had already happened therefore nothing could be done.

        That is what is known as dismissing a case on “latches” rather than merit. It’s a legal game.

        • What does Whittman have to do with Pennsylvania if it is a Pennsylvania issue?

          Would Whittman want Pennsylvania Congressmen filing suits in Virginia over Virginia issues?

          • Bill O'Keefe

            You brought it up in defending Whitman. Get a life for God’s sake.

          • You brought up PA, I explained the situation in PA and you went half baked attacking me, like the hyper-partisan hack you are.

            Also, Larry it might help if you could spell his name correctly. You know just open another Google window it’s not like you don’t have 1000 currently open frantically scouring Wikipedia for the abridged version of whatever topic you feel expert on for the day.

            Good God man, put a cork in it. Instead of listening to what or even understanding what people say you just badger them to death with comments not rooted in fact or reason.

  19. re: ” Bill O’Keefe | January 8, 2021 at 8:24 am | Reply
    Well he must not have seen that a federal judge dismissed the Pennsylvania litigation. Look at these two articles”

    I responded.

    the rest of your comment is more inane blathering.. how about you cork it?

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